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Mauser Extractor
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Picture of z1r
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Hi all,

How does one remove the extractor collar that holds the extractor on the Mauser bolt? The reason I ask is that I've half heartedly tried in the past but there seems to much resistance. And, I just welded a new bolt handle on my bolt and the collar seemed to have a lot less spring than usual and came right off. Now I used a heatsink and heat control paste and thought I kept the temps down but I'm concerned that I might have annealed/untempered this spring. I want to remove the collar from any more bolt before welding on a new handle.

Do you all remove the collar before welding?

Thanks,

Mike
 
Posts: 4869 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I have sporterized and rebarreled 4 Mausers to the point of shooting.

I bend the bolts on Mausers and TIG weld new bolt handles on 91/30 Mosin Nagants.

The extractor is removed by prying radially out on the sharp extractor hook, and while it is pryed up, push longitudially on the etractor toward the front. That is the easy part. Getting it back on on takes a second too, if you are good. More likely is 5 minutes of swearing to get it back on. One could practice for an hour and then show off in front of freindsSmiler

My advice is to never take the extractor ring off. You can get them off, and back on, but they don't fit like they did before. The extractor will keep the ring tight, so you could, but I wouldn't.
 
Posts: 2249 | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
<JBelk>
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z1r---

The extractor collar is dead soft. Just spread it apart and take it off.

The extractor is a spring. The collar is soft.
 
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Hi Z1R,,,It sounds like you have had the extactor off more than once,but never the collar.How did you weld the handle? Did the collar "spring" after you welded the handle on?
 
Posts: 2119 | Location: woodbine,md,U.S.A | Registered: 14 January 2002Reply With Quote
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JBelk,

Thanks for making me feel better. I was worried there for a moment.

Claybuster,

Getting the extractor off is usually not a problem. I'm not quite sure what you mean by did it "spring" but I can tell you it seemed to come off relatively easy compared to the few times I tried to spread the tabs on other bolts in the past. I confess that I didn't try to remove this collar prior to welding so maybe it was already softer than what I was used to. I'm reasonably sure that I didn't generate too much heat as I would weld one side of the handle then let it cool down. Then I'd clean off the old heat paste and slather on more. The important thing is that the paste up near the lugs never showed any signs of drying out.

I Tig welded the handle on. Right now I'm tigging because I have access to a tig machine. The first handle I did last week I used Brownell's 3.5% nickle rod, last night I did another but used plain old Steel tig rod and I liked the results much better. The plain rod was much thinner and easier to control the flow. Once I get my Rust bluing tanks set up in a month or so I'll see if I can tell a difference. I only plan on bluing the last quarter of the bolt (Handle & Safety Shroud).

Thanks for the replies,

Mike
 
Posts: 4869 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
<JBelk>
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z1r--

For tig rod try "Tartan TIG" from Rockmount Research and Alloys in Vancouver, Wa. (800) ARC-RODS.

It's a triple de-oxidizing rod that is designed for mild, carbon, and chrome-moly steel. It blues without blemishes, will color case harden, and can be heat-treated. It's the best I've ever tried.
Maybe you remember Ross Seyfried's 475 Linebaugh revolvers with the sight recess welded up and reshaped.....that's Tartan TIG rod.

I've never bothered with heat paste on a bolt.....if you weld fairly fast you can weld on a knob and pick the bolt up by the lugs by hand.

No matter what you do you have to re-heattreat the cocking cam and extractor cam, so I figure it's better to not have a mess of heat paste goop to clean up.

I DO use heat paste on Remington handles that are replaced without the silver solder coming loose.

Pictures here: Welding
http://community.webshots.com/album/31279476lSEOHaRuPs
 
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JBelk,

Thanks so much for the info and photos. I'll definitely be ordering some of that Tartan rod.

Do you just heat treat the areas you mentioned? If so how? I had planned on having the whole bolt re-done.

-Mike
 
Posts: 4869 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
<seven17>
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Mr. Belk,
What is involved in reheat treating the cocking cam etc? Will case hardening compound work? Is the whole bolt involved? Thanks!
 
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<JBelk>
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Reposted by request.

COCKING CAM RE-HEAT TREATING

Since I’ve probably done a couple truck loads of Mauser bolt handles, let me make a couple observations on heat-treat concerns.

The TIG torch is kinda my "thang" I love to TIG weld and have used nothing but that for bolt handles since 1980. (Heli-Arc back then)

I can now weld a handle and be able to hold the locking lugs in my hand at any time through the process. That’s good! I do it in about three stages with the lugs suspended in water during the cooling and cleaning of the weld. I've never worried about annealing the lugs.
The cocking cam and extractor cam surface are ALWAYS annealed. There’s no way to weld on a handle and preserve that surface. It's something we have to deal with.

Mausers are very deeply case hardened at the rear of the bolt, bolt handle, root and the cocking piece. Welding will certainly get the cocking cam more than 700 degrees and anything above that will soften even more.
No problem. Just re-heat-treat it.

--WARNING--
Don't re-heat a cocking cam that doesn't need it. It'll almost always crack if you do.

A file should glance off the cocking cam and the upper front corner of the bolt handle root. Check the cocking piece with the file first...just like that. It's about 60 Rc, which is about 4 points softer than the file. Check JUST the cocking notch face where the cocking piece rides. It should be cocking piece hard in the cocking cam and softer everywhere else.

You'll need a oxy/acetylene torch with a fine tip #0 Smith is what I use. Fire it up and adjust to a reducing flame. A moderate hiss and a sharply defined inner cone.

Now be careful here. This can hurt you.

Fill a big coffee can full of room temp water....right up to the brim. Hold the bolt body so that EVERY hole in that bolt is pointed away from you. Don’t ask me how I know....Quickly wave the torch flame, just past the cone, up and down the cocking notch...right in there close and HOT. The goal is to heat the entire cocking cam surface, from bottom to top of the spiral, an even red. How red? Hmm...tail-light red? Yes, but on the slightly yellow side of there.
PRACTICE this first! You want to do this flame hardening job as fast as you possibly can. Hold the bolt with locking lugs up and the cocking cam about 2 inches above the water. Heat it fast and evenly. There should NOT be any red deeper than 1/8 inch.

As soon as this red is seen jam the bolt down in the water FAST!

This whole operation from the first wave of the torch to sizzle and pop is no more than 5 seconds. PRACTICE on an old bolt. If you cant do it in 5 seconds get a bigger tip.
Don’t let the blue part of that flame touch things that hurt or burn.

The extractor cam is done the same way but due to the greater mass it will take a little longer and you’ll never get an even red without melting the corner off the bolt handle. I give it my best shot in 10 seconds and quench it no matter how hot it is. If the angle is proper (look at a military bolt) it only needs to be as hard as the action which is only 50Rc or so, in that spot, and the case is much thinner.
Concentrate on geometry and not as much on heat treat for this area.

When properly done the cocking piece cam will have a black scaly appearance with patches of dull gray. The more dull gray there is the harder it is. If its black and no gray you need to try again. Hotter this time.

Take a real CLOSE look at the nose of the cocking piece. Get your magnifier out and really look at the angled camming surface. It should look slightly concave (optical illusion) and slick as polished harden steel can be for most its length. The cocking cam of the bolt should be its mirror image.

I figure about 90 million of these have been screwed up by Dremel tools and a cratex wheels. Consider any cam as a bearing. It MUST be smoothly engaged or it galls and fails. DON'T polish either surface unless your trying to repair it. You cant improve on the progressive helix from Mauser. Don’t try.

After welding and heat-treating the cocking cam will be pretty nasty and the urge to do something gives a gunsmith a case of the “Caint Hep Its” I just caint help but do *something!!. DON’T.

There’s usually scale in the bolt threads and you need to lap it out. I use 320 (fine) valve grinding compound and AT fluid on an old shroud. Just turn back and forth until the threads are free. Clean thoroughly with solvent and a brush inside the bolt and really flush it out before trying your good shroud. You don’t want any grit left behind to gum up the works. It’s hard to get it all out but work at it. It has to be free of grit.

Put a heavy layer of MOTOR oil on the cocking cam and the shroud threads. Put the bolt together and install but don’t close the bolt. Now hold the trigger back to allow the cocking piece to “follow-down”. Lift and lower the bolt handle a half a dozen times. Remove and clean everything and look at the cam.. The cocking piece and the camming surface of the bolt should rub at least half the width of the cam all the way up

Oil and clean these surfaces every 20 cycles or so until the scale is all worn away on the “active” areas.

Questions?

[ 07-03-2002, 20:30: Message edited by: JBelk ]
 
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<seven17>
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Thanks JBelk!
I printed that one!
 
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JBelk,

Like Seven17 said, "I printed that one." Thanks.

I obviously need more practice welding. I'm no where near as fast as you so for now I'm stuck cleaning the heat paste off my bolts. I am however pleased with my ability to shape the bolt handle.

Thanks again for all the advice.

-Mike
 
Posts: 4869 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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