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| Siamese Mauser to 350 Rem Mag | Login/Join |
| one of us |
Has anyone barreled a Siamese to 350 Rem Mag? I have an Siamese action and the 350 rem, fit's the bolt and extractor perfect, if you only put 2 rds in the magazine it feeds ok, get's kinds weird if you put 3 in the mag, maybe just alter the rails some. | ||
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one of us |
GSF, I can't respond to your question but I've always wanted a Siamese-actioned sporter chambered in .348 Winchester. (it's a long story as to why). Should anybody respond to your question perhaps they can respond to mine also. I'd like to know who could barrel/chamber such a thing for me, or who might have one laying around FS. | |||
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GSF1200 just sell Matt your Siamese then buy a 98 & let me rebarrel it to a 35 Whelen. A much better round than that 350 Rem.   ------------------ | |||
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Bear Claw, I emailed you, and you never replied. Send your phone number to bogarr@earthlink.net The 35 Whelen is to common, every Tom, Dick, and Boudreaux has one! | |||
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Bill, I have a box of 350's and they do feed fine if, I only put 2 in the magazine. That would give me a 3 shot rifle, I could live with that. | |||
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| <Ozhunter> |
GSF1200, If you want something different in 35 cal look at the 358 STA, certainly a heck of a 35 cal, I guess 8mm Rem Mag at 35 cal is best description. Thought of converting my whelen, but a reality check told me I didn't nee dthe power, I have my H&H. | ||
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A year ago, I built a 45/70 on a Siamese Mauser. This action was designed for a Rimmed round and may not feed well with a 350 Mag.While I know others have done this conversion, IMHO The 45/70 was a pain in the neck and It took me a long long time to get it to feed and eject properly.I frankly would not have bothered if it was not for the fact that the gun shoots .5 inch groups! It took alot of follower work, extractor fitting and reshaping the ejector to get it to feed.I'm afraid you are looking at an even more difficult proposition. The barreling was easy, but the extractor was designed for a large rim clearance cut in the chamber. I'd be cautious of this on a .350 maf. I'd also try and fit a standard Mauser extractor, but this won't be easy as the bolt cuts are different than a standard Mauser! You will also need a stock specially inletted for this action. All in all unless you have your heart set on this project and lots of money to invest( and be willing to compromise anyway, I'd find another action to do this on. Good Luck-Rob | |||
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| <Bill Tompkins> |
Rob, Your story relates to why people will opt for the 30-40 Krag case for conversions. I know lots of folks that have gone with the 45-70 using the logic of near .458 mag. power in a rimmed case. The 30-40 Krag case doesn't require all those machinations and can supply some wonderful wildcat variations just not at the .458 level. The ones that I have worked on are in the .25 caliber range for varmint hunting. Bill | ||
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| <Pfeifer> |
I'll share what I've found about the Siamese actions, as I have two actions in the shop (yes still!) and several more if some are interested in a trade or buy. Anyway, I have run into two gunsmiths who have built .45-70 DGRs on the Siamese and have had problems with the feeding that were traced back to the use of a M98 follower spring. The Siamese has a slant magazine box and as such needs an appropriately designed spring that moves the follower fore and aft as it moves up or down in the magazine box. This is the way the originals are setup. The Enfield springs are setup similarly as they were designed for the rimmed .303 Brit case. The original Siamese followers are also somewhat unique looking as well, being wide and somewhat "cartridge shaped". My friend has a .45-70 on a Siamese in a "tropical rifle" pattern that feeds oh so well, so I know it can be done. So IMHO, I must ask why use a Siamese action for a non-rimmed case it was never designed for? In the Legacy of Lever-Actions that Wolfe Published two or three years back there is an article that has a whole lineup of .348 Win variants. Worth getting ahold of if one is considering something on the .348 Win case. Personally, I like the Alaskan series and will someday have a .450 and 50 Alaskan on my two. I had Jim Wisner make me up some custom safeties for the Siamese mausers as well. I have one extra left if someone here is interested. As far as getting a custom stock blank inletted for a Siamese, that is no problem as both Richard's Microfit and Great American both offer inletting for these. Great American even has several on their Bargains page and offers a utility grade as well for something like $50 or $60. www.reamerrentals.com has reamers for both the 450 (458) and 50 Alaskans as well as for several other .348 Win variants. I certainly don't have all the answers but have learned a bit along the way. Hope this helps some looking into the same! Regards, | ||
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| one of us |
Pfeiffer- My Siamese Mauser had the original follower spring and it fed vertically quite well. That was not the problem. The problem was that the spring was designed with the follower for the bottle-necked Siamese round. When used with the 45/70 and 500gr bullets, the rounds tend to tilt downward in the action when the bolt is cycled and caused significant feeding problems. The answer was a new follower that I machined that was specifically designed to not allow this to happen and properly bending the spring. I can only believe that a M98 spring would make this worse. Mine now feeds beautifully, but still doesn't always eject properly. I think this can be cured by some minor milling of the receiver to relieve where the round is hanging-up. I also forgot to mention that when you open up the boltface for the 45/70 and reshape the extractor, there is so little rim left that the extractor claw doesn't get a very good grip on the rim thus the case is prone to separate from the bolt unless you cycle it briskly. When I was building this thing I talked to a whole lot of gunsmiths who had worked on 45/70 conversions and most had problems like mine and no-one aknowledged a problem- free conversion. I know its been done, and I'd really like to see one that functions perfectly! I did mine just to prove I could and in retrospect it wasn't worth it! Interestingly, I agree that the Siamese Mauser is best suited for a 30-40 Krag or even better for a .405 winchester. This would be much easier, still result in a powerfull brush gun and being Rimmed be a worthwhile effort.-Rob | |||
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| <Pfeifer> |
Rob, The .405 Win is an interesting one that I have not heard brought up wrt the Siamese action. DeHaas' book has a section on these, as I'm sure you know. I don't remember the specifics on the Siamese action/magazine length as to how this would fit in one...Is is OK? So in the end, wrt your .45-70 conversion, was it the weight of the 500 grn bullets combined with the "light" follower spring that was allowing the followers to tip forward...or was it the angle that the follower stacked the cases in...or all of these? Does feeding get better with 400 grn bullets? | ||
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| one of us |
Pfeifer- I believe it actually was the shape of the foreward section of the follower and the weight of the bullets. When I made a new follower, I specifically produced an extended angle in the metal of the foreward and rearward sections of the new follower to prohibit the bullets from tipping downward. I'm sure this would not occur with the original Siamese rounds. I tried 405 grain bullets as well as cast ones and the 500 grainers fed and shot the best. As for the .405, I thought of this while looking at cartridge specs when building a rolling block. If ever there was a conversion that would do the Siamese Mauser justice it would be a .405 Win. Now that Brass is available this is IMHO a slick appoach. I actually don't want to DIS the Siamese Mauser action,as it appears to be Very Very strong and I understand they were heat treated to the same standards as the Arisaka. My 45/70 loads for it are pretty stiff and I've had no problems with lug set-back-Rob | |||
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| <Pfeifer> |
Rob, Along the lines of the .405, I saw a new .45-90 Siamese threaded barrel on ebay a few months back. I didn't think this was do-able either but haven't actually measured the magazine box to see. JP | ||
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If memory serves me correctly several years back Navy Arms was offering Siamese sporters in 45/70 cal. ------------------ | |||
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quote: Yep, they did. | |||
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Robgunbuilder, I read your post on the 405 Win. on a Siamese Mauser Action. I saw in some magazine the other day that there is ammo, brass available now. How long it will be avaiable is anyone's guess. I have had a Siamese Mauser for a few years now and have had trouble coming up with a cartridge for it. I was thinking along the lines of some of the old english double rifle rounds, just haven't had the time to really pursue it. Do you know of anyone who has done a 405 on a Siamese? I agree with you, it would be a slick deal if it would work. Thanks, | |||
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| one of us |
I don't know of anyone who has actually done it, but it should work extremely well. I don't think the boltface needs to even be opened..405 Win brass is available from Buffalo Arms and I'm sure Pac-Nor could make a barrel. Reamers are still available, and loaded up the .405 Win could be a formidable round. I also recently examined one of the Navy Arms 45/70 Siamese Mauser conversions and on opening the bolt all of the rounds popped-up through the mag. It had other well know feeding problems as well as ejector issues. I'll rest my case on this project and if I ever get envolved with a Siamese Mauser again it will be in a .405 Win.-Rob | |||
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Just an addendum to the 405 brass info, Hornady says they are coming out with Factory ammo, as is Winchester now that they have released a new M-95 in 405 - Dan | |||
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| <Pfeifer> |
I picked up DeHaas' "Bolt Action Rifles" the other night with this in mind and he says nothing about the 405 Win but says the .30-40 Krag (same rim diam I believe) is a natural for the Siamese. He also lists the magazine box length as 3.00"...so anyone happen to know the OAL length of the 405 Win rounds? Will these fit w/out mods? I haven't made it over to the reloading books (or webpages) as yet to get this answer. I'm probably going to make a trip to the shop today and if so I'll try to verify this magazine length as well. I don't have a .405 Win round but I'm sure that my gunsmith does! Interesting topic...Jeff P | ||
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| one of us |
COTW lists the .405 length at 3.18, measuring a REM-UMC factory round I get 3.125. I agree that a .405 on just about any action would have a high "cool" factor, but my next Siamese project will be the .50 Alaskan (at 2.5 COL). | |||
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I still think the 350 Rem would be cool. | |||
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Hornady is apparently bringing out 405 Win ammo, as well. - Dan | |||
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| <Pfeifer> |
So if this is going to work how does one pickup an 1/8 inch on a magazine box? Doesn't sound too easy to me? Or does one just settle on a shorter version of the 405 Win? Jeff P | ||
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| one of us |
The mag box on the Siamese Mauser will have to be lengthened by cutting and welding on a new rear portion. The rear of the receiver will also need to have a left hand slot milled out of it for proper ejection. This needs to be done even on a 45-70 conversion or ejection will be problematic. This is no big deal as you have to mill off the old reciver shroud rails anyway ( if you don't, this thing will really look wierd).Luckily Siamese Mausers were apparantly well heat treated and you can Mill them without needing Carbide. The ejector will also need to be ground back and re-shaped. The mag follower also needs to be lengthened by Tig welding(you also need to do this for the 45-70). Remember this is an angled Mag Box in order to feed Rimmed cartridges properly and you will need to maintain the proper geometry. I would not try and increase the mag box length from the front as you would then have to grind the feed ramp far too much for safety. All in All a great project for someone who really wants something different, has too much money or too much time.! Good Luck-Rob | |||
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