I would like some input from the 'smiths and enthusiasts on this board.

I have been putting together a .458 caliber rifle for awhile now (or having the work contracted out I should say).

I was offered a true Remington 720 action last night (for $850) by a gunsmith friend who has acquired 2 of them (one for him, one for me).

I had seen these at his office before, while the owner decided what to do with them (his client collects Remington 720 rifles, and owns 8).

The condition is perfect.

I am inclined to purchase this, simply because they are so well made, and obviously hard to come by. I am not an expert on these, but previously all the ones I had seen were on the original rifles (which you know are a prize amoung certain collectors).

These are NOT model 30's that were changed around.

I believe this one was made in '41, which is amazing when you hold it since the design looks almost modern to me (or maybe I am just geting old).

So my question: Should I purchase it and make my bigbore with it? This action makes the choice easy for me....458 Lott (but I still HATE belted cartridges).

Thanks for your help.

Garrett
P.S. I hate belted cartridges.

Another .458 cal round that does not have a belt is the .450 Rigby......would this action fit that ?? Just an idea.

$850 for a 720 action? Wow . I have one complete with a m30 bottom , Maybe I could get $1000 for mine.

If you want it , buy it. I think they are all made in 1941.

GSP,

Are you thinking $850 is overpriced?

I haven't seen any 720 actions for sale before.
The ones I had seen were all complete rifles.

What do you think the action is worth by itself?

Garrett

Cheechako,

I wonder if we are talking about two different things.

The 720's I am familar with weren't sold by Remington. They were presented as awards to military personel for things like a General's retirement, winning certain national matches, etc.

They were extremely scarce, and the rifles I have seen for sale are in the $2000 dollar range in good condition.

They were made from original Reminington 1917 actions that were then machined into a new configuration.

Someone correct me about this if I am wrong.

Garrett

Remington made and sold the Model 720’s from 1941 to about 1946. The latter ones were sold as barreled actions to Griffen & Howe.

The US Navy bought a bunch out of the first run which they ended up using as trophy’s in the Sec of Defense interservice matches, and the Michigan State Police bought some also.

Lacy’s book on the model 700 has a whole chapter on the model 720 also.

Garrett, Ive never seen a 720 action alone for sale. Yes they are rare and not many were made.

The m720 "was" sold by remington . They were sold to the public. The military bought a bunch up and they were used by Dept of the navey as award rifles , engraveing on the floor plate.

720 is a improved m30 and the last remington to be made on the 1917 enfield action.

Ive seen award rifles on Gunsamerica asking $3500.
There were 2 commercial 720s on gunbroker a couple months ago that went for around $1000+

Mine is a commercial one. I also have a 1927 m30 custom with the bolt handle staightened to look like a M720.

I dont know what the action is worth . Looks like $850 .

Most gunsmiths dont know what they are. I think Tom Burgess is the most knowledgeable about them. Contact him. He had sent me pix of a vandelized 720 with holes drilled all through it.

The 720 had a 3 piece bottom and aluminum trigger guard and floor plate. I found a m30 bottom for mine.

Garrett,

If you can post the serial number I would be more than happy to look it up in Lacy’s book for you, or you can go to http://www.armscollectors.com and do a search there.

Garrett

I can see the big money for 720's in original condition. ($1000 plus) I don't see $850 in a 720 action alone. Spend a 1/3 of that on a model 30 and put a new bolt handle on it. There is no "collector" value on a gun "built" on a 720 action I wouldn't think. Now if you go further and have a known maker build a nice classic rifle in a nice piece of English, rust blued etc. Your value lies more in the components and maker still not in the action.Just my 2 cents.

Shawn

I have "seen" original M720 award rifles advertised at all kinds of prices, but the only two that have actually SOLD around here in the last couple of years brought $550 each.

They were both won by the fellow who sold them, so there is no doubt they were genuine. The seller started out asking $1,200 each, but then he got smacked in the face by reality. He was down to $1,000 by the time I passed on them, and I would have paid maybe the $550 he eventually got, but I was too early in line...(before his price dropped to that point).

I'm starting to think P.T. Barnum said it all.... A lot of people these days seem to have a hell of a lot more money than they have sense. Just because something is old or uncommon DOES NOT make it actually worth a lot of money, other than to some other equally ill-informed sucker. In fact, a fair number of really uncommon guns are uncommon simply because they were not much to start with, so they didn't sell well. That, BTW, was exactly why the M30 Remington didn't sell well. I was alive and shooting back then, and when one considered weight, handiness, available chamberings, and all the things which taken together actually make a rifle useful, the shooters of the period didn't find them nearly as good as a Model 54, or a Model 70, or a Mauser sporter...or even a Model 94 30-30.

The “value†of anythin is whatever someone is willing to pay for it...no matter what it is.

I have seen guys on this forum post pictures of stock blanks (not complete stocks...just the blank) that they paid thousands of dollars for. Are these pieces of wood truly “worth†thousands of dollars? I guess to the buyer they were!

One man’s treasure is another man’s junk...and that’s one of those things that keeps life interesting and fun.

Alberta Cunak, I got mine for less than $400 . It started at $900 something on gunbroker and he kept dropping the price.

Getting scope bases and other parts for a 720 is a pain.

If enough people want something rare they bid the price up. The last 2 720s on the auction sites had alot of bidders

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick 0311:
The “value†of anythin is whatever someone is willing to pay for it...no matter what it is.

-------------

You can look at it that way if it you want, Rick. But, that's exactly what Mr. Barnum was talking about. To me it just means some people are damned fools, more interested in trying to show status by owning something with a big price, but little actual use. True status comes from what a man IS, not what he owns (or doesn't).

Early this year or late last year a 720 '06 with horrible custom stock brought, as best I recall, $400-500 on gunbroker or auctionarms.

I recently purchased a whole 720A for $725. The barreled action is original, but the stock is a Bishop replacement.
Still, your price seems a bit heavy.
I sold a nicely refinished 720 at auction a few years ago for $350. No bidders.
There are smiths out there who make great replacement triggers and bottom metal. You just have to ask around a little.
I agree, the quality is fantastic!

quote:

Originally posted by N. Garrett:
Cheechako,I wonder if we are talking about two different things.Garrett

Garrett

You're right. I misread your post as a Rem 721, two entirely different rifles. I deleted my post.

Ray

Not commenting on this price because I don't know 720's, but talking direct to Alberta Canuck's point. I hate the fact that some people are willing to pay more than something is worth, they then drive the prices up for everybody up, just perpetuating stupidity. The PT Cruiser (car) is a perfect example. When it first came out suggested retail on it was around 18k, but locally they were scarce and idiots were going in and paying over 20k. Well moron, if it is only supposed to be 18k and every other moron out there would smarten up then none of you would have to pay more than the 18k!

My wife and I bought a house a couple of months ago, paid what I consider an outrageous price. but had no choice as thousands of other Kalifornians are moving to our area and will pay anything for a house. now nothing is reasonable.

Red
PS
sorry for the rant

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick 0311:
The “value†of anythin is whatever someone is willing to pay for it...no matter what it is.

-------------

You can look at it that way if it you want, Rick. But, that's exactly what Mr. Barnum was talking about. To me it just means some people are damned fools, more interested in trying to show status by owning something with a big price, but little actual use. True status comes from what a man IS, not what he owns (or doesn't).

I didn’t say anyone was necessarily smart or stupid. There are those out there that probably think the guy that sold his two trophy rifles for $550.00 each was pretty stupid...or more likely, pretty broke and in need of quick cash.

The point is, unless you want a social/economic system with price controls on goods and services you are going to have “whatever the traffic will bear†in the market place.

Buyers always think everything costs too much...and sellers always think they can’t get a decent price for their product or service. And depending upon who’s ox is being gored those opinons and views can change quite rapidly.

Most workers want higher wages...except for those other workers building the products that they want to buy cheap??????????

No one is holding a gun (pun intended) to anyones head to make them buy something that they feel is over priced.

Back to the subject of Remington model 720’s...those rifles had a production life span from 1941 thru 1945. No, they didn’t sell real well at the time, but if I recall correctly there was another really big thing going on during that time period. Perhaps you heard about it...it was in all the papers I think!

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Not commenting on this price because I don't know 720's, but talking direct to Alberta Canuck's point. I hate the fact that some people are willing to pay more than something is worth, they then drive the prices up for everybody up, just perpetuating stupidity. The PT Cruiser (car) is a perfect example. When it first came out suggested retail on it was around 18k, but locally they were scarce and idiots were going in and paying over 20k. Well moron, if it is only supposed to be 18k and every other moron out there would smarten up then none of you would have to pay more than the 18k!

My wife and I bought a house a couple of months ago, paid what I consider an outrageous price. but had no choice as thousands of other Kalifornians are moving to our area and will pay anything for a house. now nothing is reasonable.

Red
PS
sorry for the rant

So, Dago...

What did you sell your previous house for? Market value, perhaps...or did you give the buyer a break because you felt the current market value of your home was too much?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick 0311:
The “value†of anything is whatever someone is willing to pay for it...no matter what it is.

This system, in which the marketplace sets the price, is called, I believe, capitalism.

I know the Remington M720, and I don't think the action alone is worth that kind of money. You could buy a pre-'64 M70 Winchester or even a Classic M70 for that, and use the action for your project. You could sell the take-off parts to defray part of your cost too.

If you decide to buy the M720 and use it, you (as mentioned above) will need a new trigger and new bottom metal. The trigger is a "garage shop level" modification of a military trigger, and is not an override design. The bottom metal is part aluminum and part steel, and all clumsy in design.

I checked Stuart Otteson's book -- he also mentions the action's Springfield breeching and gas handling as weak points.

jim

Rick, this is my first house. I moved from a mobile home which I am trying to get the title paperwork all sorted out on right now so I can sell it. On that one though I am going to sell it for less than what market says it is worth, but not because I am a nice guy but because I want to get it moved fast and stop paying space rent on it.

Now, if I were to sell this one I would sell it for market value. the market is inflated by the idiots, that doesn't mean it isn't the market.

this type of thing would be great topic for another thread, had long conversation on this subject today as a matter of fact.

sorry for sidetracking your thread on the 720.

Red

I have an original 720 stock in excellent condition if anyone wants to upgrade their beater. It would run $300 delivered.
Good shoot'n

Rick, I wasn't trying to insult you personally.

However, the same market that drives prices up to the level of abject stupidity does drive them down as well. Bubbles burst when they get far enough up in the atmosphere. An example is the late "dot-com" boom-bust in the stock market.

It just pisses me off when those speculators start plying their heinous trade in the sporting goods market, and prospective purchasers are expected to just roll over, open their wallets, and smile while being hosed, even if it is the result of their own newness or ignorance to the field.

And yes, I do remember the 1939-45 kerfluffle, I was there. I even remember when the U.S.government came to the neighborhood bakery and took away all the steel knife blades from the automatic bread slicers "for the war effort"...resulting in some serious temporary local greed-inspired overpricing of sliced bread.

We could have all knuckled under and paid the unreasonable price being asked, forever! But none of us or our neighbors did. We just sliced our own bread (at least unless we started getting mess-hall chow) and, WHADDYA KNOW? The price came back down to a level more appropriate...well before the war ended and steel was easily available again.

And I remember when the 720 COULD have been made again but wasn't, because Remington read the stuff that had already been written on the market wall. Instead, they got busy and soon designed/produced the Models 721 & 722.

In a capitalist system, it is the buyer's responsibility to himself, his family, and his neighbors to be an INFORMED purchaser, like the fellow who started this thread is trying to be, and to NOT let himself be conned or ripped off by lacking the self-discipline to delay gratification of "wants" until the profiteers are taken care of by the market.

Alberta Canuck,

I don’t disagree with much of anyhting you have said...I was only pointing out that if people think a price is too high they should move on.

I was Jim Carrey’s stunt double when he hit the big time and became one of the first “$20 million dollar a picture men.†There was a reason he got $20 million a picture... and that was because his agent knew if he asked for $21 million Robin Williams, or some other comedian’s phone would start ringing off the hook with job offers.

It’s no different with any other product or service...sellers will price their goods and services as high as they can get away with and as long as people fork over their cash they have no reason to lower their prices.

When it comes to firearms though we have lots of choices out there and we can shop around if we choose to. Allot of this stuff depends upon personal likes and dislikes. Personally, there is no friggin way I would ever spend thousands of dollars for a stock blank...or wait four and five years for a $10,000.00 custom rifle, even though I can afford one. But...there are lots of guys out there that would do both of those things in a heart beat.

Whether that makes me stupid or them stupid I will leave for someone else to decide!

Seems like if you have money burning a hole in your pocket it may be worth it to you.

I find that sooner or later, I find what I want at the price I want to pay.

BiggestGun, You have a PM.

I have M-17 and P-14,fondled a 720,of which there aren't many.The action evolved into a cross between a M-70 and a M-98,with it's own excellent safety.More generous in size than either.With in Remington it was referred as the one dollar rifle,because it cost Remington that much to sell one.A Timmey Enfield 5-shot (shortened)trigger fits.