What is required to mail a shotgun or other firearm to a family member?

Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or an authorized agent of federal government.

Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder 26 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws.

For further advice on mailing a specific item, you should contact:

* The nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)
* The Mailing Requirements area of your local Post Office facility.

there is also a form I believe it's a 1508 which is for manufactures if memory serves me ( I could be wrong ! )

This link will provide all your answers .

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara..._01/27cfr178_01.html

An interesting situation came up in Arizona one time . I have a Brother who resides there.

So this happened too me personally ; I wanted to purchase a Rifle ( legal in my state to posses )

I wanted my brother to pick it up and ship it too me . WRONG as Acid Rain !.

Even if he bought it ! , it could not legally be shipped too Me !. Now he could purchase a weapon and ship it

too Mom or Pop as a gift !. NOT A SIBLING THOUGH !.

Now I can go there and purchase it wait for back ground check and waiting period , then pick it up personally !.

Yet if it's shipped it must go too an FFL holder in my state for pickup . ( That's what the Gun Shop in Prescott told me and NO EXCEPTIONS !.

I then asked him if it was my brothers Rifle he owned it and wanted to gift it too Me . Could he ship it too Me ?. They said NO as it's not permissible for a sibling to send another sibling a firearm .

Is this An Arizona Law or does this pertain too other states as well ?.

Thank You all for piping in on this one in advance ( As I watched are you smarter than a fifth grader

the other night . I realized ; I MIGHT NOT BE after hearing the answer to a 4 grade question in which

I WAS WRONG !. Boy that hurts with a doctorate !!!.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
does anyone have a link to the post office regs re firearms shipment?

Here you go:

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm

Gotta admit one thing! The rifle to Alaska arrived today (shipped Monday) UPS and Fed Ex will have to work overtime to beat that !!

What are you doing working on rifles for folks other than Texans? I feel so violated.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
What are you doing working on rifles for folks other than Texans? I feel so violated.

Would that be the first time?

Today?

For your next exercise in frustration at the post office, try explaining the difference between bullets and cartridges!

quote:

Originally posted by Slash:
For your next exercise in frustration at the post office, try explaining the difference between bullets and cartridges!

What's to explain? I'm sure you know that it's illegal to ship ammunition (cartridges) through the mail. Did you tell them that you were shipping bullets? There's no regulation that requires that you declare bullets.

I recently ran into a similar problem with UPS. They wouldn't ship a firearm to an individual that had shipped the firearm to me initially for rebarreling. The same office was more than happy to ship a firearm to another FFL holder. I then went to the local post office with a copy of my FFL and they were more than happy to ship the firearm for me. They retained a copy of my FFL and each time I ship a firearm I only have to sign and date the back of the FFL sheet certifying the firearm is unloaded and there is no ammunition in the package. Simple enough, convenient as it's in-between my full-time job and home. I'll be shipping USPS from now on.

On another note, from my understanding of the BATF regulations and possibly the USPS regs (not sure which one it was) it is perfectly legal to ship a long gun to anyone in the state in which you reside as long as face to face transactions aren't regulated through NICS. If you can privately sell a firearm to an individual in the same state, you can ship that firearm to them without any legal infractions. There is no FFL involvement required. You'll have to read up on it to be sure, but it may have been in the commonly asked questions section of the BATF website. I printed it off, but don't have it in front of me at the moment.

Duane, the other thing that is better with registered mail is the cost of insurance. With Registered it is $1.35 per $1000 and with priority it works out to about $10 per $1000 and you can go to $25,000 with registered and only $5000 with priority.

I did get a chuckle out of the statement about self insuring. Now how does that work? If they loose the package you refund the guy (the pissed off guy) his money. NOOOOO THANKS

quote:

They retained a copy of my FFL and each time I ship a firearm .......

Again. Atf tells me NOT to give my license to a non licensee. However, they won't pick up the phone and call a UPS hub or Post office to help clear ANYTHING up.

Wonder why?

My Dad bought a Grumman sportboat in 1957. Minnesota didn't have any boat registration at all at that time. Several years later you needed to buy a sticker for your boat and put numbers on it. Later boats needed to be titled. He put stickers on it, but never had a title. I inherited the boat. I had a letter from the Lawyer probating the estate outlining the history of the boat and identifying it by serial number. I went to the courthouse in Newport, KY to get it transferred to KY and get the tags. Couldn't be done, no way, you don't have a title we can't give you one, period! So, I go to the neighboring county (rural) where my daughter lives, used her address and the lady at the courthouse says:" Well, we can submit your paperwork and eventually get a title, but why don't you just put that stuff away and we'll just get you a lost title." I walked out of there in 5 mins with the matter taken care of.

Nuther time, same courthouse in Newport, KY: I had bought a new truck in Ohio. I had the purchase contract and a computer prinout from the state of Ohio. They wouldn't let me register the truck because I didn't have the window sticker (unless I paid the tax on their amount in the computer). I called the county clerk and told him: "your BS has cost the state of Kentucky several thousand dollars because i am going to register this truck in Ohio and pay the ohio tax." He said i couldn't do that. I told him to pound salt. i owned a business in Ohio and let him try to stop me. Not only will you have lost the State the taxes and registration, you will run up more costs trying to catch up with me and when it all comes out you will look like an ass. (you see alot of Ohio plates coming out of residential neighborhoods on this side of the river). Anyway, I went out to the same rural KY courthouse and it went through without a hitch using the same stuff I had to start with. Bureaucrats tend to become monsters, therefore you want to keep their numbers as low as possible. It is a quality of life issue.

You got time for one more off topic rant?: I bought a house in Kenton County, KY. It was a repo and needed alot of work. I took the maibox down. A year later it was all done and I put up a mailbox for the renter. He received a letter for me. The taxes on the property had been sold on the courthouse steps. I went to the sheriff and told them i wanted to pay the taxes, and paid them. I went to the city to pay the taxes and they told me I still had one year of county taxes unpaid. I called the County PVA and he said I had paid the current taxes but not last years. I told him I went in person to the sheriff and paid the taxes. He said, ha ha, oh, well after x days they sent each years taxes back to this other office. Going in person to the official charges with collecting taxes doesn't do it. I asked him why the sheriff hadn't sent me a tax bill in the first place. He said that they would have sent one to the property, and having been returned, they would make an effort to locate my address, but failing that they would send it for sale. I said why didn't somebody look in the other office when i came to the sheriff to pay the taxes. He said (GET THIS):" We got a law passed making it the taxpayers responsibility to determine what tax he owes." He was proud of it. I told him what I thought of that and of him and that I didn't feel that the sheriff's office made much of an effoert to find my address in as much as I own several other properties in the county and was getting the tax bills on them. I went to a lawyer to vent and he told me that in Kenton County, KY 90% of the delinquent tax bills were sent to the wrong address and that 90% of those were first year's tax notices. That is, 81% of the delinquent taxes in Kenton County, KY were first year sent to the wrong address. Sounds like a conspiracy to collect penalties doesn't it. I put up red flags all over the state. Don't think it did any good. When it comes to conning the taxpayer these bastards are all in it.

Just shows that lunatics are in charge...so do not give in no matter what the inconvenience..Any of you Californians remember gunsmith-stockmaker, Kurt Haase?

Je was a bit "conservative" His favorite phrase "Assinate everyone from mail man on up and start all over"...Gulp! He was not serious, of course..???

My post master happends to be a avid outdoors man. He hunts mostly deer, but if that yote walks into his yard(which is like 10ac for a lawn bebfore the 300ac after that) he has no problem hitting it with a 300win mag.
But that aside he would reload if he had time. Other then that I will do custom loads for him and other friends. Funny thing about what you said is everyone under his post office is very knowledgeable about fire arms and hand loading.
Maybe I just one of the lucky few that the post office people know about such things.
Just ask the guy who tried to ship live ammo.....that was entertaining! After the argument I told the guy go UPS not USPS. Someone walked out of there feeling rather retarded.
One of those days you wish you had a video camera!

Here's how Self-Insuring works, Chic-

We ship hundreds of target rifles every year.

As it turns out, FedEx is really good. They never lose them, and they very, very rarely damage them if they're well packed.

We rarely pay for insurance.

If something is damaged, we replace it.

[You're right, they did mange to booger the Pope we imported from Europe. It made it across the Atlantic safely, and FedEx damaged it on the way to the Midwest.

It was patently obvious even to them, though, that this was a museum piece, and they ponied up on the insurance.]

In your case, Chic, you probably couldn't afford self-insurance.

Every one of your rifles is a labor of love, and, perhaps, nothing could replace it.

But my boss--who is affluent, and didn't get this way as an accident--can replace every one of the rifles that is damaged in shipment.

He calls self-insurance a "Profit Center."

Just like those MBAs.

flaco

N.B. Also, my boss, who is 71, can shoot. Just a few years back he beat Dennis De Mille to win the California Rapid Fire Championship.

Remember?

Standing to sitting?

This is no bullsh*t, Chic, coming from one of the best target rifle shops in the nation.

No customs, and while I stumbled on this site while I was trying to emulate you--I love custom Mausers in great wood--my boss says "We don't make art."

Guess what?

Our rifles win.

what shop you work for flaco? Do you have a webpage?

Most all of our Nations problems can be directly attributed too just # 545 ,. Whoops Teddy's gone it's

#544 people at the moment !. A novel Idea next election " Throw out the turn coats and every dam

democrap " in the up coming elections !.

Long live the Greatest Country in the World !. Just try living in another one if you think I'm

mistaken !!!.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Slash:
For your next exercise in frustration at the post office, try explaining the difference between bullets and cartridges!

What's to explain? I'm sure you know that it's illegal to ship ammunition (cartridges) through the mail. Did you tell them that you were shipping bullets? There's no regulation that requires that you declare bullets.

Let me explain:

A friend shipped some cast bullets to me via the Postal Service. When I retrieved the package from my mailbox, it was crushed, torn open, and bullets were spilling out of it (BTW, the packaging was more than adequate to withstand normal handling). I took the damaged package to the post office and showed it to a clerk. When she asked what those metal pieces were, I told her they were bullets. She told me that shipping bullets was not allowed. I told her that shipping CARTRIDGES was not allowed, shipping BULLETS is OK and then I tried to explain the difference between a bullet and a cartridge to the clerk, her supervisor, and then the supervisor's supervisor. That is when the frustration ensued. My claim was never acted upon and I stopped spending time on tilting at windmills.

quote:

Originally posted by Slash:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Slash:
For your next exercise in frustration at the post office, try explaining the difference between bullets and cartridges!

What's to explain? I'm sure you know that it's illegal to ship ammunition (cartridges) through the mail. Did you tell them that you were shipping bullets? There's no regulation that requires that you declare bullets.

Let me explain:

A friend shipped some cast bullets to me via the Postal Service. When I retrieved the package from my mailbox, it was crushed, torn open, and bullets were spilling out of it (BTW, the packaging was more than adequate to withstand normal handling). I took the damaged package to the post office and showed it to a clerk. When she asked what those metal pieces were, I told her they were bullets. She told me that shipping bullets was not allowed. I told her that shipping CARTRIDGES was not allowed, shipping BULLETS is OK and then I tried to explain the difference between a bullet and a cartridge to the clerk, her supervisor, and then the supervisor's supervisor. That is when the frustration ensued. My claim was never acted upon and I stopped spending time on tilting at windmills.

I would have politely told them to piss up a rope.
Sounds like like you've got the cream of the crop at your PO.

QUOTE] Let me explain:

A friend shipped some cast bullets to me via the Postal Service. When I retrieved the package from my mailbox, it was crushed, torn open, and bullets were spilling out of it

.........


My claim was never acted upon and I stopped spending time on tilting at windmills.[/QUOTE]



I am not surprised. It is my understanding that you have no claim against the post office (the "carrier"). Only the shipper does. He is the one who paid the fee for safe carrying and delivery, and he is the one who did not get what he paid the post office for.

If he was not your friend (who you probably don't want to have a fuss with), you would have a claim against your friend (the shipper) IF you had paid him for the bullets and shipping, but not the carrier.

That is why some sellers request that if you receive a damaged package you refuse delivery and have the packege returned to sender (the seller). It is the same with UPS and FedEx.

I'm the Office Manager for MT Guns, James-

My boss is Mac Tilton, who graduated from Trinidad in 1958.

Our client list reads like a Who's Who of target shooting, with an emphasis on Palma, as we import Barnard actions, and Mac was on the US Veterans team until his wife had kidney failure.

Now he's pretty much tethered to her dialysis machine.

He's affluent because he holds the first patent on a carbon/graphite clutch. The first competition test of this clutch was the US Grand Prix--Formula I--and the car won.

He was sued by the outfit that previously provided clutches to the highest level of racing, counter sued, and after years of expensive litigation, he won.

So.

It's a tough life lesson.

Instead of being rewarded for his ingenuity--he is a genius, and, obviously, a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers--he had to fight for his commercial life in a court of law.

He sold his company, Tilton Engineering--known to almost all racers, this company has 75% penetration in NASCAR, for instance--to his son, and went back to his first love, Gunsmithing.

He is a wonderful human being--he puts up with me!!!--and is on a first name basis with target shooters across the nation.

Early this year we built a Palma rifle for (Sponsored) a 21 year old University of Washington Junior, Kelly Bachand, who is on the American Under 25 Team, the Young Eagles.

About three weeks ago he took this rifle to Canada, and after nine days of shooting, Kelly came home with the Canadian Fullbore Championship and a table full of really big trophies.

Mac is very generous in his support of target shooting Juniors.

I came to this website in '05, because I wanted to learn how to build Mausers.

I worship at the feet of guys like Duane and Chic.

Despite a degree in English Lit., and a background in photography and writing.

Anyway, I gave up building Mausers.

I just had my 61st birthday, and will never build rifles like Duane and Chic.

I've been shooting 600 yard Benchrest club matches every month for a little over a year now, and done well enough to take home one small--six target score, light gun, fourth place--trophy from the NBRSA 600 Yard Nationals in Sacramento last April.

It's been a little tough on Mac, who is used to events where actual shooting ability is important.

Benchrest is mainly technical, with an emphasis on good 'smithing--we can do that--and uniform loads.

If there's any great skill in the events I shoot, it's reading the wind.

As it turned out, I had a skill set that was good for Mac. I can type, write well, I'm reasonably good with computers, and I make photographs of the rifles we sell.

I live target rifles. I eat breathe and sleep target rifles, and I'm around them every day.

Which is just fine with me.

The funny part is that I was for a while Staff Photographer/Contributing Editor for "Excellence, A Magazine About Porsche Cars", and used to see Mac in the hot pits at Laguna Seca.

He was always surrounded by people wanting to speak to him.

He's that kind of guy.

flaco

N.B. Sadly, I wondered about making the post I did. I expected someone would call me on the self-insuring issue.

I didn't want it to be Chic.

But I did feel I had experience worth sharing.

And think about it.

FedEx sells you that goofy insurance... because they make money on it.

If you self insure, it's like going to the casino and betting with the bank.

@ Craigster: Yep!

@ Alberta Canuck: True, but my discussions with the postal service employees never got to that point. My friend tried on his end but was told no insurance = no claim. He felt so bad about it (even though I would not hold him responsible and hell, we were only talking about $30 worth of stuff), he sent me another box of bullets and wouldn't take any more money from me. I found another way to pay him back, though.

Gosh: Maybe I opened pandora's box???There's a hell of a lot of discontent, anger and frustration out there! I received a letter today from the Postmaster...falling all over himself in apology...BUT...pointing out that the clerks can't be expected to know all the rules............Ahh...excuse me!


Not expected to know all the rules??? What the F.......is this. When I drive my car, I am REQUIRED to know all the rules...when I sign my tax return I'm REQUIRED to now all the rules.

What gives these stumblefuck postal clerks a pass on knowing "all the rules"

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
What gives these stumblefuck postal clerks a pass on knowing "all the rules"

Why, they are Civil Service Employees who are accountable only to other Civil Servants. It's our Government at it's finest!

My question is that since it is fully legal to shop long guns - DO YOU HAVE TO DECLARE THAT YOU ARE SHIPPING A GUN ? Or simply state that there is nothing fragile, liquid or hazardous.

that is what I usually do simple to avoid hassles from unknown PO employees.


On the other hand I was looking to shipping 70 pounds of smokeless powder to Alaska and asked at a lower 48 PO and was told that there were no restrictions mailing it to Alaska as long as it went Parcel Post !! I liked her answer but doubt any postal inspector ( or ATF agent) would have agreed with her.

This is all true, Duane-

But were you ever in the Service?

You'd have been advised to take it to the Chaplain.

You had a gripe, and it's been addressed.

It's all well and good to get the forum riled up over these barely-above-minumum-wage employees, but personally, I don't have time for it.

I take few things on principle. I don't, for instance, have time to reform the USPS.

As you know, Athletes shake off all minor injuries, and as far as I can tell, this is a minor injury.

What I'm interested in is shipping my packages with the least amount of friction.

And we've accomplished this.

Easily.

If you want sympathy when you've boogered the inletting job on a $2,000 blank, or come home from your annual physical with a spot on your lungs, we'll all commiserate.

I will be the first.

But Sheesh, Duane, you've been jumping these hurdles since you were barely out of diapers.

Can you please give us all a break and go back to worrying about important things?

flaco

N.B. We ship a lot of golf clubs, sporting goods, etc.

LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Again let me assure each and " EVERYONE " of you unless you're the post master or post master general !.

save for paid days off, benefits, and of course, ample retirement.

This statement is BS !!!.

A postal clerk makes depending on when they were hired and pay scale steps , $12.50 - $22.50

They also pay a % of their wage for their health care ( No eyeglasses no dental ) .

Now the Juicy part ,the retirement Old contracts 2% per year so 30 years = 60% of salary . NO SS !.

They didn't pay into it !!!. Newer contracts SS and savings plans which employer matches up too 5% on any

" ONE Plan ". that 5% is Total not per year or weekly !!.


Now let us explore Police and Fire Politicians retirement ?. Fire Dept. How about up to 110% of their

highest averaged last 3 years of working pay ( Including over time holidays and such ) Sweet huh !!!.

Police and Fire averages 92 % of their highest salaries upon retirement which can occur after 50 !!!.

We all know what scum bag politicians get " FULL TILT BOGEY " after a single term !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Keep it real !.

do they sell computer keyboards without exclamation marks?

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
My question is that since it is fully legal to shop long guns - DO YOU HAVE TO DECLARE THAT YOU ARE SHIPPING A GUN ? Or simply state that there is nothing fragile, liquid or hazardous.

that is what I usually do simple to avoid hassles from unknown PO employees.


On the other hand I was looking to shipping 70 pounds of smokeless powder to Alaska and asked at a lower 48 PO and was told that there were no restrictions mailing it to Alaska as long as it went Parcel Post !! I liked her answer but doubt any postal inspector ( or ATF agent) would have agreed with her.

I've searched thru the regs and have yet to find anything that says a firearm (longgun) has to be declared.

Maybe some one else can.

Another link to USPS regs on mailing:

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/...2c4_009.htm#ep324856

Early this week I had the same experience shipping a rifle through the USPS. I called first, they said they could not do it. I told them they could, they transfered me to another person, same thing again, they would call back in a half hour. Never called back. I called the next day and told them I wanted the PO regulation that stated the PO could not ship and that I had the ATF regulations stating the PO could ship. They called back later and said I was correct. I went to the PO, they knew who I was when I walked in, I had no problems from that point.

flaco: someone holding a gun to your head and making you read this thread?

Duane-

Nope-

And I'll add that one of the high points of my life was selling a BSA Martini action to you.

I grovel in your footsteps.

flaco

Look.

Duane is by far the best among us, and if he gets a little twitchy about the USPS, it's not my job to disagree.

I was particularly happy to send him the Martini action because I knew he'd turn it into a piece of art.

It was either a Model 12, 13, or a 12/15. I can't remember. At the time I was lusting after one of these, as tarted-up they make beautiful rifles.

Duane subsequently posted images of two Martinis, if I remember correctly, and they were both as beautiful as one would expect.

Which is to say surpassing beautiful.

I do remember feeling guilty as the action didn't reach him when I said it would. It was the Holidays, and somewhere between my schedule and the FedEx schedule, it didn't get off in time.

Most recently, we haven't been selling many of these, and have a few left.

We continue to sell the MK IIs and MK IIIs, as guys enjoy using these in competition.

Consensus is that the MK III is the best of the Internationals, as it has the only floating barrel.

The MK IVs and MK Vs tend to be prettier, but most believe they're not machined to the standards the earlier Internationals were.

flaco

quote:

Originally posted by flaco:
Look.

..... and if he gets a little twitchy about the USPS, it's not my job to disagree.

flaco

He isn't the only one!!!

If you don't stand up for your rights, then they will continue to be eroded away and you can even lose them all together. Sometimes that means writing letters, informing others and it usually isn't the easy path.

flaco: it's a litle off the subject, but I PROMISED my grandson his Martini 223 by December.....Jeez how time flies (It ain't done!)

Sheesh, Duane-

I can think of few things sweeter than a Wiebe Martini in .223.

Please post images when you're ready.

flaco

Flaco, I understand the principles of self insuring. They go hand in hand with Risk Management. The first thing you have to look at is what your risk is. In the case of a customers gun that is finished, he is paying the postage and the insurace so I have NO RISK. So why would I take on the responsibily of replacing the product. To do so is foolish and I could think of a lot better words to describe it.

You may have never seen it but FedEx does lose guns and they do damage them. I have also heard enough stories about customers having trouble with them paying just like UPS and I use USPS registered mail because of their great track record. And I don't play games or gamble that the item will get there.

I would send a firearm by USPS registered mail with no insurance before I would send it by UPS or FedEx insured to the hilt.

I appologise in advance for not reading this entire discussion. It's just too off track from the initial post. So, I'll tell my experience in a short story.

I was moving stuff from Idaho to Alaska, and didn't want to bring guns through Canada, so I packaged all my long guns up in prep to send them from myself to myself. I went to the post office in New Meadows Idaho, and was told that I couldn't send the guns through the post office. Well, that news sort of mildly pissed me off, to put it accurately.

So, I figured my odds, and decided to play along. I stood aside and let other customers pass. Then I took my place in line again, remaining polite, and asked to speak to the postmaster. When she explained the "law" to me, I let her finish and simply said that I disagreed. Her response was basically "so what"? Then I decided to up the stakes and said that I am a veteran and a law-abiding senior citizen and pay my taxes, and she is a civil servant who works for me, etc., etc., blah, blah, and I said that I wanted her to call her boss and ask for confirmation of her intrepretation of the "law". She went to the back room, and I could see that she was on the phone. I learned later that she called Spokane WA. I stood aside quitely. After about 30 minutes she returned and said I was right, and the guns could be shipped to myself through the post office, no problem.

I then told her there was no way that I would ship the guns through her post office because I didn't trust her. I then left with all the guns and went up the road to Riggins, where the post master was a man. I went to the counter and the guns were accepted from myself to myself with no questions and no problem. The guns were at the post office waiting for me when I arrive home, after driving through Canada.

I always wondered if that postmaster woman learned anything from the experience of 30 minutes I invested in her.

KB