I am trying to figure out what makes one rifle a $15,000 rifle and one a $5,000 rifle, when the only real difference I can see is in the brand of the barrel?

http://www.biesen.com/page14.html

http://www.hillcountryrifles.com/wood_pricelist.asp

I'll take the Biesen any day.

I guess that I am in the dark. An HCR for $15,000 and that is plus receiver and wood. Give me a break!
Butch

The work Roger Biesen provides is absolutly one of the best values in custom riflework. He turned a 1903 semi-inlet for me that was totally first class for like $125. Of course he uses Al's old patterns.

Great value.

I agree that the biesen you linked to is a great deal, I think the stock would cost you $3k to duplicate anyway.

I'm a HCR fan, but I would figure that rifle to be worth about $8k if I was having it built---15K--

$15K for an HCR rifle must be a JOKE! But I'm not laughing. You can buy a best quality gun from any one of several gunmakers for $10K or less and get a better rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
I agree that the biesen you linked to is a great deal, I think the stock would cost you $4k to duplicate anyway.

I'm a HCR fan, but I would figure that rifle to be worth about $8k if I was having it built---15K--

That rifle I linked to is one of many listed for sale on Biesen's website. Most are in the $4-5 thousand dollar range, and most have almost everythink that the $15000 rifle has except that Biesen seems to like Douglas Barrels, although they state they use the Air guaged ones.

Fish30114, did you see that the HCR was plus receiver and wood? A good piece of wood and a receiver would push it to $18,000 or above. I had rather have a Biesen at the same price.
Butch

The $15,000 rifle is marketed to Someone thats rich and wants to spend $15000 on a rifle so he can brag to his friends he spent $15,000 on a rifle, though the $5000 rifle might be nicer.

Butch, I noticed that after my post--sheez!

I am going to look at the Biesen website shortly. 22 WRF--do you already own a Biesen? What are your thoughts?

Don

15k would get you a hell of a rifle from the likes of Heilmann, Weibe, Echols, Simillion.... Any of which I'd takeover a that particular HCR.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Butch, I noticed that after my post--sheez!

I am going to look at the Biesen website shortly. 22 WRF--do you already own a Biesen? What are your thoughts?

Don

No, I don't own one. I was on his sight becasue I am going to have them pantograph a couple of blanks for a couple of projects I am working on. Biesen was recommended to me for that work by none other than DJPaintles.


Take a look at this 1909 Argentine. WOW.
http://www.biesen.com/page21.html

I tell you, I often go to the Biesen website, I plan on trying out one of their stocks. I think that their prices are very real good for what you are getting, hell, if youwerne't getting an off the shelf and wanted a different barrel i bet they would do it. great looking guns.

15k, they are smoking crack.

Red

By the way, these are the two that get my attention

35 Whelen

257 Roberts

Red

I currently only own three Biesen rifles and have been using one that Al made for me in 1971. Still shoots 5/8 groups with it's favorite hand load. A bBiesen custom is with out a doubt the best buy for your money on the market.

465H&H

22, I am not surprised to know DJ steered you that way. He is a knowledgeable and talented guy. The rifles I saw on their sight were really great.

Another thing to add to the wish list!

Take Care--Don

22wrf,
The shop is in Al Biesen's basement. They have a very steep narrow stairway and all this metalworking equipment down there. I asked how they got it in and Al said that they used to have a coal chute and part of the porch was hinged and the truck would just pull up on the lawn and dump it in. They changed to an oil or gas furnace some time ago and ended up using the coal storage for the blank turning room. Then Mrs. Biesen asked to extend the house forward and the porch became their extended living room.

Al said that it had been that way for sometime and Roger all of a sudden asked how they were ever going to get all the equipment out of the basement when Al decided to quit the business. They both had a good laugh and Al said that Roger would just have to hang onto the house and work out of the basement.

Okay back on topic. They are a great bargain in rifles and wonderful people to boot.

Biesen any day.. but we gotta tell him how to resize pictures :-)

Customstox

Great story. You ought to sit down someday and start putting all of these stories about the folks in the gun trade down on paper. Would make a great book. I sure would buy a copy.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I am trying to figure out what makes one rifle a $15,000 rifle and one a $5,000 rifle, when the only real difference I can see is in the brand of the barrel?

http://www.biesen.com/page14.html

http://www.hillcountryrifles.com/wood_pricelist.asp

Someone once told me that it was pretty foolish to hire Rembrandt to paint your bathroom for you...but if you did the value of your home would probably increase dramatically if you found the right buyer!

Rick

Stupid stupid me. I guess I missed the fact that HCR reshapes the rear tang and adds pillar bedding. Now I know the reason for the difference in price!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Rick

Stupid stupid me. I guess I missed the fact that HCR reshapes the rear tang and adds pillar bedding. Now I know the reason for the difference in price!!!!

I guess maybe you missed my point, or I didn’t present it properly.

Anything “custom†is going to have a “value†based on what the buyer finds desirable. To me, anything made by the Biesens’ has great value...but not all people may agree with my opinion.

If that other company has overpriced their rifle (which I believe they have)then I’m sure they will realize that at some point years from now when they still haven’t found any buyers for it.

In the mean time, why worry about it? If it’s overpriced in your mind, then don’t buy it.

Rick

I am not worried about it. And nothing is "overpriced" in a capitalistic society. That is why I used the word "disparity" to compare prices.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Rick

I am not worried about it. And nothing is "overpriced" in a capitalistic society. That is why I used the word "disparity" to compare prices.

Perhaps the old adage of “whatever the traffic will bear†is the answer to your question. I will bet you that some guy will buy that rifle for the asking price.

Probably a better answer is that Roger Biesen is as honest as the day is long and charges “reasonable†prices to his customers and doesn’t try to retire off each sale. That’s probably also a contributing factor in Biesens’ being a 2nd generation business with a whole bunch of long time loyal and happy customers.

Custom rifles can be hard to resell. About a year or so ago a Biesen Mauser in .35 Whelen was offered on either auctionarms.com or gunbroker.com, I forget which, for inexplicable reasons it languished unbidden with a starting price of, as best I recall, $1500. The ad was renewed a few times and still no bids. I offered $1300 and it was sold to me. Made by Al in the late 1950s, condition bore perfect and near mint externally. But just to show you that what goes around comes around, I tried to sell a superb Jerry Fisher .270 Mauser, new condition, at one of the New Hampshire auction houses a couple of months ago and it did not reach my $3000 reserve. Fisher gets over $10,000 for a rifle these days. It doesn't kill me to have to retain this fine rifle but I was surprised it didn't sell.