Is there a point where you have too much burl figure and the wood should not be used for a stock?

I have this burl that I have been cutting into blank sized peices to make room in the shop while it dries and some of it is nothing but burl. I have a 30 inch blank that is burl from end to end that will make two stocks. The blank pictures here is 20 inches long, 6 x 10 square and 5 1/4 thick, but all burl?

If this is a problem I will start cuting flitches for ornate boxes.

Way too much burl for anything. Send it to me and I will dispose of it very carefully.

I suspect that if you are dealing with a through bolt it may be okay. Although I am not sure, I have never used a blank with that much.

Chic would know far better than I but I would think it would depend quite a bit on your application. e.g. It would probably be fine for a falling block in .22 Hornet but could become curly fries after the second barrel as a .577 NE stock.

Kyler

I've never worked on a full length burl stock. I would expect it to be way too damn heavy for a hunting rifle.

I've done some minor work on 2pc Stocks like for a 94, and my biggest beef is that it chips so easy.

Its frustrating enough inletting a forend, let alone a full barrel channel.

-Spencer

This wood is currently wet, but I have never handled wood so heavy!

The block in the picture is 34 pounds, but it need a few years to dry and stabilize.

333 you should wet that blank down and repost photos so we can see what it really looks like.

Mind if I ask what you gave for it?

Chic and others would be the folks to listen to regarding what a stock would be like with that blank, but if Chic would build me one for a SAKO action to fit into, I would buy one in a heartbeat, in a .270 Win (which unlike D99, I love) maybe it would last for me.

If you end up with any scraps I would be interested in it for knife handles.

Just beautiful, to me!

Regards-Don

Can Walnut have too much burl is kind of like asking if a woman can be too good looking, might be a bitch to work with or too high maintenance but it sure is nice too look at!
I think I'd be finding the right place for either.............. .........DJ

I actually did not buy this wood. I saved an amazing burl stump from a barrel grinder that was removed from the courtyard of an Inn built around 1920s. The top was trunk and limbs were made into firewood beforeI could get to it. The rest is mine. I have about 1500 pound sof wet burl. That is 6 slabs around 6 inches thick and 4 x 6 feet in size. There is some bark intrusion in porions of it and a tiny bit of rot down towards the roots, but the rest of the wood is just as seen.

quote:

The top was trunk and limbs were made into firewood beforeI could get to it.

Gads, the stupidity of people!

Be sure and seal the end grain. You might also put a single coat of finish on the wood to slow the moisture escape. This wood may tear itself up while drying. Be usre an allow even ai curculation.

I was told to end seal with Anchorseal and then dilute the seal and lightly coat the sides with that too. I guess this slows the loss of moisture but does not stop it.

I wouldn't make any stock with that wood. The stump would have been best sold for veneer and the money invested in stock blanks.
As for the 2 piece, through bolt-notion for marginal wood, personally, I don't buy it. Also I believe through bolt stocks are weaker because of the hole drilled through them. All the stocks I make are two piece and the qualities are the same for structual integrity of any stock. I never worry about recoil breaking a stock. It is much more likely to break by dropping it. If this happens, the caliber is hardly the issue.

If that was English I'd say it could have been Jaguar dashboard material. Burl is beautiful, but not my idea of gunstock material.

3330_OKH
The concept of a through bolt reinforcing a stock is the same principle of a cross bolt and that is basically the same as post tensioned concrete. It entirely depends on the grain flow in the wood. The bolt will put the stock wood fibers in compression just like the post tentioning rods do in concrete. The recoil has to overcome those stresses to start to make the wood go to a yield point. You are building in a factor of safety and that is why it does help with marginal wood. The problem I see with Burl is to determine where the grain flow is. Take a cross grained piece of pine and try to break it in a vice, it is not tough. Now drill a hole through it and tighten the nut and try it again. You will see the difference.

There have been a lot of stocks made from some marvelous burl from stumps so there are different thoughts along that line. I have never heard of them having any more catastrophic failures than any other stocks. A lot of people use them with great success. I have never used them but have certainly seen them used by others.

if I owned that blank it'd be used for two piece stocks only.....

I will post pics of the others asa soon as I go over to the shop to seal them. Currently they are hidding in a dark cool area awaiting the arrival of the sealer.

I had one weekend to remove the stump or it got ground up for chips and fuel wood. No time to contact a veneer maker and hav ethem come by and get it. Now it is going into block of wood big enough to produce 2-piece stock with thier forearms included.

The way eBay had done seeling stock I will probably post them there or on Auction Arms and see what happens. Otherwise?

If you can sell that for stock wood more power to you but I can't see it. It's very nice looking stuff and there certainly has to be a demand for it for something.

If you did a stress test on a piece of this burl wood, and one on the same size of staight grained wood I know the burl would fail sooner.
I once had a claro stock with burl in the magazine mortise crack across all those little knotts. The wrist area is also critical. Your wood is beautiful and woodworkers will pay well for it. It would make awesome drawer fronts.

I was suprised by the mass of burl. Originally when cutting I thought only burl was on the outside, but it is everywhere. The two slabs from the center of the tree where the trunk came down into the burl are still yet to be looked at. This might produce different figure in the woods.

333 okh thats pretty cool you rescued that stump.
There were some old walnut tree orchards around where I live. Last year I saw one orchard was getting bulldozed for development and they were cutting the trees down and knocking out the stumps . I went in there several times to try and get wood. Some Iranian dude was contaracted to remove the trees and that basturd would not let me even take a twig. He'd just yell at me and tell me to get off his job site. I think they were just going to take the wood to a dump. They way they were destroying it. Dang foreigners

I was amazed at how this old tree had been reduced to firewood in no time. The top was english walnut with some amazing crotch areas, but they hacked those out cause it wouldn't split into useable peices. The wood is great but small enough it will have to be used as veneer for boxes etc.

Just thought you would be interested in this stuff?



http://www.olympianwalnut.com/index.html

The Europeans use this type for shotgun stocks all the time. You need a throughbolt. Most throughbolt stocks are made a bit thicker in the wrist. It is more susceptible for side force breakage but will be very beautiful until it breaks. Poor for a one pice stock. A 5/16" pin will strengthen the wrist, but the action area will be very weak.

The Mark's Engineering Handbook lists croosgrain at 5-10% of the strength of longitudinal grain.

I am awaiting some Anchorseal before proceeding to cut more. When I can I will post pics of the rest of the wood as it comes out. I only have two 1-pc stock blanks right now. They are 33 and 30 inches long, but all burl like the above pictures. I will probably not cut more in that size. I think they wold make interesting small caliber stocks for guns like the 17s and 22s. I recently saw a Martini in burl that was to die for.

I'm sorry to refute the oft quoted "though-bolt for marginal wood" BS. I've seen burl and poorly layed out stocks break and crack on several through-bolt gunstocks. Whoever started that wasn't an experienced stockmaker.

The most recent was a Very High end ($18,000) Italian O/U, simply cracked across the wrist. This was on an Argentine dove shoot. I dont know if it was the high volume shooting or if the gun was dropped. The through bolt didn't help it a bit. Send it back to Italy for restocking.
Wood has strength from the length of its fibers. Burl has very short, curled fibers and almost no shear strength.
I repeat, the major advantage of good long grain through the wrist is shear strength. A through bolt does NOTHING to strengthen this. The stock will still break if subjected to one good hard drop. Concrete and rebar have Nothing to do with a gunstock.
Cross-bolts in a Mauser are an entirely different thing meant to hold the wood across a cavity (magazine box) and reinforce the area subject to the greatest recoil. Through bolts are a means of attaching the stock to the action, not a method of reinforcing. I don't know who started this BS, but it is just that.

I stock my guns to last in perpetuity. Lots of gunstocks have lasted. Burl SUCKS for gunstocks.

As I walk through the SCI show an see all the European guns stocks with BEAUTIFUL shit wood I wonder if they will even be shot. No amount of through bolt, cross bolt, or hidden steel bars through the grip will even make it right. One good thump, it Will be broken. This has happened more than once in a hard shell travel case. Even in the butt burl can cause warpage in the future. Use it at your own risk.
And please refrain from repeating the "good for a through bolt stock" BS. There is no substitute for good wrist grain. Drillng holes and inserting steel never makes the WOOD stronger. You may not be able to break the bolt, but you can still break the wood.
SDH
That is Very beautiful wood you are showing, make something really nice from it to give to your sweetheart.

... but tell us how you REALLY feel about the burl wood, gnmkr .

Seriously, thanks for that input. Would it work, as mentioned above, for a light/rimfire stock where recoil stress isn't a factor, or would it still be too prone to breakage from outside influences (whacks, etc)???

Helllo the camp:
If you don't mind the ramblings of an old wood butcher, I would not usd theh burls for any thing except a very high end show gun that would not be used, and has a lot of engraving and other jeejaws on it.

As much as I hate to advise it, I would sell the burl to a specilty wood shop for use in vener for high end furnature.
I usually think it is a crime to waste walnut on furniture, but burl like this is VERY HARD TO WORK and to get a good finish on. I don't have the skill, or the time to do it.
Don't rush. It, like dimonds will only get more valuable with time.
Judge Shrape
I am not a wood worker or a gunsmith, but I play one in my little shop.

PD, You can make anything you want out of burl, just don't drop it.
Sorry for the diatribe, it's just one of those things somebody wrote about and keeps getting repeated as gospel.
I'll be at the SCI show next week and will again see loads of European guns with through bolt stocks and burl wrist grain and loads of Turkish blanks that really should have been veneer. It sounds counter-intuitive, but quite often the more expensive the blank, the worse the wrist grain.
This is what I would call Exhibition with great layout, quarter sawn, full fiddleback, plenty of color and airdried since 1992. Compare it to the Olympia Ex. on the above website.


The matching blank of the pair.

SDH

Gentlemen, in days not that far gone, the 'woods' in a set of golf clubs were actually made form wood, either laminated blocks, almost always maple, or solid blocks, almost always of persimmon.

These clubheads were treated with a penetrating epoxy, the generic name of which escapes me--rendering them incredibly strong, and very resistant to moisture penetration unless deeply gouged or damged.

I am simply curious as to whether this process could/would have any merit in a stock. It did not add significant weight to the clubheads by the way.

I define it to have a super pro make your stock for you. Then it will be worth a fortune. I sue wouldn,t want the job inletting it thought. van