Chub Eastman has an article in the Jan-Feb Rifle (#223) "Empire Rifles Custom Grade Accuracy and Dependability", p.44ff.

You can also go to the Empire Rifle website, and find a link to the story on the Rifle website.

I read it first because I have been following Empire for a couple of years. As I got into the article I got more confused because it seemed like a major disconnect from what I knew. I finished the article, and visited the Empire Rifles web site, which is a lot different than when I last visited.

Previously Empire had two lines of rifles: one built on a Mauser action cast in Italy and assembled and proofed in Belgium; and the higher grade built on the Granite Mountain Action. Now the "EuroMauser" rifle has quietly vanished. I know Writer Eastwod knows the EuroMauser, I have some of his other writing discussing it.

I am thinking that the article would have been way better if it covered why Empire shelved half its product line. The rest of the story as it were.

There is also a part of the article covering the working grade rifle, which is a synthetic stock .300 WSM with a detachable box magazine. Author Eastman regards the DBM as one of two "...welcome surprises".

In his words:

"One, the .300 WSM is a great cartridge for most anything on the North American continent except for big bears, but like any short, fat cartridge, there is a potential feeding problem when stripped from a stagger-box magazine. I wantyed to see how Empire solved this problem."

and

"With all the new short magnums, the rifle comes with two, four-round detachable box magazines. Bill (Wiseman) has designed the magazine so the rounds are stacked in a staggered position to reduce the depth of the magazine, yet the feeding of the top round is positioned in line with the chamber. This way the round is fed straight into the chamber as the bolt is moved into battery. This is a far more reliable feeding system than having to jump at an angle from the traditional fixed magazine."

So after Empire goes to considerabnle expense to have an action with Mauser controlled round feeding and that big non-rotating extractor, did they revert to a more complex feed system? Not to beat a dead horse, but it does ugly up the rifle too.

jim

Mausers come and Mausers go. Seems like everytime you see print on a new one that is being made, when you dig into it you always fine that "something" isn't the same.

when you consider that those guys over there in Oberndorf had primitive machinery but still made those beautiful mauser actions in the 1930s, you would think that somebody could do it today with their HAAS and their Bridgeport and their Electronic Discharge Machining and the newer carbon steels available today.

And I cant for the ligth of day understand why it should cost 2-3000$ to have a mauser action made in this day and age? Thinking of the custom actions we have these days. Granite mountain, Hartman & weiss... etc etc

A solid mauser action, but maybe with 3position saftey for those who wants. Its not difficult to make a mauser action! Just seems that the gunmakers feels to do something on their own. Is the mauser a perfect hunting action?

HunterJim, I am probably one of the few that really likes a detachable box mag, it is a massively preferred feature for me. Having said that, I do know that the DBM is an option with Empire, I have a friend who had a current Empire in 270 WSM without a DBM.

I know they still offer a cast and a machined from billet models, I'm not sure if there is a caliber difference, my buddy has a cast model, and I know you can get a machined version in the 270 WSM, not sure if there is still a cast version available, but I think so.

I'm curious if anyone has any real life experience with an Empire, and what it was?

Regards--Don

Don,

I use detachable box mags on a couple of Steyr rifles too. (The first thing I did was to buy a spare. )

I remember previously that the Empire's chambered in the WSM calibers had to be DBM -- I didn't know that would do a regular Mauser magazine box too.

I asked Mauser expert Dr. Alf what made a Mauser; he said the unique features are:

*C-ring collar;
*Non-rotating claw extractor (controlled feed); and
*Magazine box with staggered cartridges sized to the individual cartridge.

I am not getting the "Mauser" without the mag box built to the cartridge, like one-third of its uniqueness is missing. Maybe Alf will comment.

I would like to hear Empire users chime in too.

quote:

I am not getting the "Mauser" without the mag box built to the cartridge, like one-third of its uniqueness is missing.

THats why I dislike the 308 length CZ-550's.

In my book its the kiss of death.

If I recall correctly, there is actually a geometrical (is that a word) formual that can be used to determine the exact dimensions for the box you need for the cartridge you are going to use. I believe it has been discussed here on AR before and a search might find it.

If you want a good cheap Mauser get a VZ 24.
150 for the rifle, action
300 for a bottom metal
100 for a trigger
150 for a 3 position safety
700 total for and it is more than willing to become a 280, 06, 270 winchester. Those are still really good cartridges.
Timan

.22WRF,

I remember Thos. Burgess posting it once upon a time...jim

22WRF & HunterJim,

I believe this is the Tom Burgess quote you are referring to.
It is out of context but, excellent none the less...


Todd, and anyone else on this line of wonder.
Any three supposedly identical cartridges when bunched together,
two laying next to each other the third laying nested between the
two forming a clump would if you want to dig out a protracter form
an equilateral triangle in the lines you draw at dead center each
ctg. We are talking 60 degrees per angle. That is the Mauser Brilliancy.
To determine magazine widths:

Diameter of ctg at a point about .200" forward of base. For Rigby call
this .591" Since of 60 degrees is .866025 for your hand held number
cruncher. Add 1 for 1 each diameter to the sine. This becomes then 1.866025
Multiply .591 by 1.866025. Result= 1.1028

Shoulder. Max ctg per B.R.P & Treble .540"

.540 multipied by 1.866025 Result = 1.0076"

If you narrow the box by .053" at the rear you take same ammount off
width at the shoulder. Whatever it comes out at 3.775 length or 3.825
is simply a continuation of this taper.

For best results when you are able to do so the width of the receiver
lips should be about .010 over case dia. at the rear end . This keeps
that big fat case down to where it will not interfere so much with
EJECTION.

The feed well walls of the receiver should match the magazine inside
walls, taper for taper. In addition the receiver feed walls should have
Mauser's vertical taper of 8 deg. per side narrower at the top.

Stack highth. Take an adjsustable parallel, set it to width of magazine
box at rear .200 mark, place on vise parallels or a piece of something flat,
place the 4 ctgs base down on the adj. parallel, run a square from vise jaw
to vise jaw touching one ctg. Same drill 4th ctg opp . Stack highth is
distance between the square's blades.


Allow about .140 for spring eye and follower platform flat and another .060
to that so you can depress the top ctg,full magazine to dump a 5th round
into the chamber, without getting a twofer. End of bullet ramp should come
out even with the Military alignment slot for their feed nose, Rest of magazine
length to rear. You will need a newly made bolt stop. Dont do it half assed
and weld a new stop lug on the old one! Last thing you do is to cut away the
feed lips and widen out the bullet ramp. If you do not use the Mauser Bump
over system in the receiver, (I don'T) you will at the end have a feed lip
geometry that reminds you of the top gunwales view of a small row boat. The
front lips become the guide in a straight, line narrowing to the bullet ramp
cut and this guides side of ctg direct to center of chamber. Amidships the
width accross the lips will be around .725 for a distance of about 3/4" starting
about 2 " from case base. Stay the course.You seem to be a gutsy guy who can
and will make it work.

Sine formula works for Mauser style magazines, whatever ctg. Largest dia at
rear times sign and if you roll the ctg on a desk top and find that the
bullet touches the top not shoulder, not even neck- then that is where you
get that diameter and that is the starting point for width at that point.
I wrote this up once to be included in a guild newsletter, probably 8 year
ago. If you follow the procedure you will not be messing with the W spring
trying to get way more tension at the back or the front simply because the
ctgs.pinch at that point.



Regards,
Dave

David,

That is the Burgess post that I was thinking of, I remember the (spell checker ?) change from sine to since in the first paragraph.

jim