necessary gunsmithing equipment

23 January 2007, 21:21

matt salm

My wife and I recently bought a house, and with it comes a 40X40 foot heated insulated shop. It has 6" framed and insulated walls, steel inside and out with a 12' ceiling height and a 6" fiber reinforced concrete floor (previous owner was going to install a car hoist). We sold our land to start our life in a decent house for ourselves and our 17 month old daughter which is a good thing.

Anyway, we decided that we would each take $10,000 and buy a few things that we've always wanted. For me that is a good shop with decent equipment.

I already have a table saw, floor mounted drill press, 12"disc/12X48 belt sander, 2X72" belt sander with a long arbor on the opposite end that can be used for buffing, a small wood bandsaw and a table saw.

I have a lead on a very decent lathe that would be suitable for gunsmithing tasks that has 3 and 4 jaw chucks and a few other toolings for around $1000 or so.

That leads me to here. I would like a decent milling machine, was thinking of a good metal cutting bandsaw and a welder... What else would any of you recommend as indispensible? I found a great deal on a sinebar riflling machine (for muzzleloader barrels) and I'm planning on starting out as a hobby and possibly picking it up in 20 years after retirement for an enjoyable pastime. Probably do some rebarreling work, along with stock fitting/making, and all sorts of small repair work. Muzzleloading has really got me interested in building handmade contemporary long rifles, hence the addition of that rifling machine.

So, help me with some ideas. What kind of equipment would you be looking at, and what would you consider 'indispensible' and what would you buy or make as the needs arose?

I still need to get a good set of bench chisels, files, etc also. Probably start out with a standard selection, and then make my own bottoming files and whatnot for inletting and carving.

Help me out here.

23 January 2007, 21:31

tin can

Miller makes a series of small welders, DC stick, and air-cooled TIG capable. The middle priced one runs around 1500 dollars, I think.

Weighs about 40 pounds, about the size of a large box of cereal, will run on 110 or 240, very portable. The 110 I reserve for light repairs outside the shop.

23 January 2007, 21:36

fyj

In my opinion you should invest in the best measuring/gauging tools you can afford. This is often overlooked and your finished work will show it.

For precision work the cheapo stuff just ainâ€™t gonna cut it. Go with the top brands like Starrett, Mititoyo, etc.

The other indespensible items are the very best milling vice you can afford, and a good quality Quick Change tool post holder for your lathe. I like Aloris tool post holders but there are some others that are also very nice.

I envy you, your new shop sounds like a beauty with lots of space.

23 January 2007, 22:02

matt salm

FYI,
That's one thing I overlooked but know that I will need. I will be certain to have good quality measuring equipment. I believe there is a good tool post holder on the lathe already, but don't know if it will be available yet.

23 January 2007, 22:07

butchloc

#1 thing - knowledge of how to run the machines. In our shop we average about 10,000 hrs a year fixing boo boo's from people who screwed things up not knowing what they were doing

23 January 2007, 22:12

gsp

I have a (Mityoyo) depth mic set for sale.
0-4" range and wooden box.
Let me know if your interested.

A lathe with large spindle bore and short head stock, square column mill/drill will do most small parts. Add a good grinder. A nice tig welder would be nice, surface grinder,the list goes on, and on, and on, and on...........

23 January 2007, 22:26

matt salm

I have some education in mechanical engineering, and took a few semesters at the local tech school for machine shop since I wanted the knowledge of using those machines, but Butchloc you have a very good point. My uncle (who you know) is an exceptional machinist and craftsman and he'll be the first I call when I have a question

.

Obviously I'll be going with all manual machines, no CAD/CAM at my finances, but I'm pretty excited to finally be able to set up a shop I've always dreamed of.

I was considering a surface grinder if I could find one cheap enough, but that might not fit into the budget. Would be nice for making the old long bits for boring out those muzzleloader barrels.

24 January 2007, 00:01

Rojelio

Get you a good (complete) set of gunsmithing screwdrivers.

Nothing says amature like buggered up screws.

Rojelio

24 January 2007, 01:40

Blueprinted

Hey Matt still useing that 280brass. LOL KBC tools and Machinery KBCTOOLS.COM 1-800-322-4292. They are great. I have gotten calipers and mics from them.They have good supply of guages, punches and even some floor mounted power tools. The have most of what you are asking for, knowledgeable people, good service.

24 January 2007, 02:41

jeffeosso

while alot of this may not apply to your question, i think it's "that and some"

here's my answer with Lawndart asked

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
JC,

this is the single most important piece you would never think of
Spindlesquare - trams your mill in seconds, and allows you to tram TO the surface of the work... for interesting things like barrel dovetails
$150
http://www.wttool.com/p/1289-0600

this is the mill you want, $2600 delivered and can be LATER upgraded to cnc
30x12x5 TRAVEL with a 40x9 table -- you do NOT want a round column import, and this thing is like the PERFECT gunsmith mill.

http://www.industrialhobbies.com/Products/square_column_mill_2.htm

updated URL

~4000, i would look for a 15" lathe, as they generally have the through hole and WEIGHT to be accurate. I would look for a leblond/nardini. 15x60 would be fine, and a SHORT bed (36 or 48) wouldn't hurt, and generally goes for less money. monarches are amazing lathes, but the through hole tends to be smaller

add 500 for shipping

welder .. me, I would get a CHEAP tig welder,
like this -- i have a big thermal arc, and nearly NEVER go above 60amps for gun related stuff.. and 3/8 is usually only 120 amps.

(thermalarcs START at 1800)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7624...9&fromMakeTrack=true

i would then buy a hobart TRUE mig welder

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOBART-HANDLER-180-MIG-500506-CART-...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
785 - includes bottl and regulator that can work on both welders...

bout 1100 bucks for a tig and mig, which of course can do stick as well, so you have all major processes covered

you'll also need a torch, even if just pony bottles..
500 total

surface grinder -- this would be the LAST thing I bought, and harbour fright ahs them for 699!!

i would, however add
"import 6" cnc vise" for the mill. $129 from wholesale tool. will drop with into the mill table

TWO 1/2" boltdown kits 40 each

123 blocks - 40 bucks

starrette 12" precision level, $200 ebay

hand full of machinist jacks, 4 bucks each

tslot scraper 5 bucks

harbour freight coolant pump, get 2, 50 bucks each

and of course collects, boring bars, chucks... so probably right at 11K to fill your shop

put aside 1000 for misc tooling

what I would get before a surface grinder is a BIG baldor pedestal grinder, 10 or 12", and a big buffing only buffer/arbour... and the set of wheels and grits.

oh, yeah, while the surface grinder would be cool, a $229 6x48 belt, 12" disk grinder from HF, with a replacement motor, kicks butt for installing pads and varius off hand grinding work.

on chucks, get jacobs, a 0 to 3/8 KEYED, and 1/2 keyless.. and a JUNKER 3/4" keyed, as a through away, as you'll want that from time to time.

oh, and one of the best "have it around" are a set of edge finders and a coax

jeffe

24 January 2007, 03:10

tin can

for a lot of the "starret" grade measuring tools, try flea markets- I've been buying at them for years, many times you run into a machinists tool chest. The tools are usually worn, but not abused, and sell for pennies on the dollar. I've gotten 500 dollar angle blocks, etc. for 15-20 dollars, complete starret combination square sets for 50 (and lufkins, browne & sharpes, union, etc)

and mics, vee block sets, etc.

I even see... firearms occasionally- bought a 43 byf luger, and somewhere in my stuff I have a MS action I bought for 40 dollars.

also, if you're anywhere near a large city, look in the newspaper for tool/business auctions- some bargains, although it takes a few trips to get tough enough to play.

jeffe- how is an edge finder used?

24 January 2007, 03:38

pointblank

For measuring equipment as well as tooling, check ebay as you can find very good deals. I've picked up lots of high end indicators and such for incredibly low prices. Just be patient.

24 January 2007, 03:55

tin can

ebay- bears watching, it's a good idea to know what an item retails for before bidding. just prior to christmas I bought new a Huskie hydraulic portable punch and an Enerpac hydraulic pump to power it. I saw the punch sell used used on ebay for 200 dollars more than what it retails for.

quote:
i have a big thermal arc, and nearly NEVER go above 60amps for gun related stuff.. and 3/8 is usually only 120 amps.

I have the portable 200 amp DC/TIG- great machine, but fragile. knocked it off a table and cracked the case- now I leave it in a milk crate when I use it.