If the bolt is cycled quickly, it works like a CRF. If the bolt is worked slowly, the cartridge fails to be captured by the extractor. Cartridge jumps out as the head clears the feed lips, but bounces off the bolt's face instead of going under the extractor.

My Model 70 works as a CRF all the time, 100% of the time regardless of how slowly or how quickly the bolt is cycled.

Just in case I get no satisfaction with CZ, who are well recommended gunsmiths to work on these rifles to make them feed like a well tuned pre 64 Model 70 (my other CRF rifle)?

If anyone has any gunsmith recommendations in the Dayton/Cincinnati area, so much the better.

when I restocked my 416 it kinda did that but not that bad, mine wouldnt get hold of it until a good ways down the rail. I changed the spring to a mauser spring from brownells/worked on the box and follower and it fixed it.

HP Shooter, You got me curious so I grabbed mine for a look see. My observation may not be valid because I'm using a Winchester spring and follower (the factory cz follower was reworked and feeds fine but I have mailed it to a friend to try in his cz).

On mine I slowly worked a round w/ muzzle up, level and down. The bottom face of the bolt (below the extractor claw) pushes the top of the cartridge head until the cartidge completely clears the rails/follower lip. At this time it is forward pressure of the cartridge body against the feed ramp that snaps the cartridge head up and behind the claw. I can point mine muzzle down and there is a point where the cartridge clears the rails/follower lip and if I don't keep forward pressure of the cartridge body to the feed ramp just prior to the head snapping under the claw, the round will free fall into the chamber.

hope this is of some help,
Gary

HP Shooter, Update, I did a side by side comparison w/ a RSM, M70, the CZ and a vintage Sauer & Sohn M98. On all four of them I can point the muzzle straight down to the ground and slowly feed a round from the magazine (granny speed) and the cartridge head will snap under the ejector claw before being fully chambered. Only the CZ can be made to not go under the claw and freefall into the chamber (this is only when I stop forward momentum of the bolt at the point when the cartridge clears the rails/follower lip. I think this is mainly due to the Winchester follower, I'll recheck when I get my CZ follower back).

Good Luck!

my 550 270 i had did this. only at random; would just notice that bolt wouldn't close and the round would be in front of the extractor. annoying. an old zkk 375 and a 550 416 never have.

quote:

would just notice that bolt wouldn't close and the round would be in front of the extractor. annoying.

Yep, sometimes I find closing the bolt takes a bit more effort.

I'm calling CZ back again tomorrow with the rifle's serial to get a return authorization.

I spoke to Mike today about it and he seemed to be less than enthusiastic about fixing this, with insinuations that this was normal behavior for CZs. That was after I told him that my Winchester works like I expect all CRF rifles to work.

I have currently two CZ rifles. CZ-USA will get one opportunity from me to prove that they are worthy of more of my money. I hope they don't blow it because I will get my rifle fixed one way or another, but they won't get a second chance.

I've owned two 602's and had problems with both of them. The "fix" - as my gunsmith tells me, is opening up the extractor a bit and beveling the back of the chamber "entrance."

cost was about $50.00 and they work fine with a little tune-up.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I've owned two 602's and had problems with both of them. The "fix" - as my gunsmith tells me, is opening up the extractor a bit and beveling the back of the chamber "entrance."

cost was about $50.00 and they work fine with a little tune-up.

When you say "opening" the extractor, do you mean opening the gap between the inside face of the extractor and the face of the bolt?

That's what I was thinking needs to be done. I took the bolt out of both my CZ and my M70 and slowly slid a cartridge into each extractor. the M70 took far less force to get the cartridge to slide up in there.

Does anyone know of a reputable gunsmith in the Dayton, Columbus, Cincinnati area?

If this is an easy fix that will cost me less than $50 or so, I'd much rather avoid the cost in time, money, and hassle that sending the rifle back to CZ will be.

These guys have gotten good writeups here before, mostly for rebarreling. They're over near Canton/Akron, though, so a pretty fair drive:

I.T. & D. Custom Gun
2229 Leisure Road, N.W.
Minerva, OH 44657
330-868-6867

quote:

Originally posted by skl1:
These guys have gotten good writeups here before, mostly for rebarreling. They're over near Canton/Akron, though, so a pretty fair drive:

I.T. & D. Custom Gun
2229 Leisure Road, N.W.
Minerva, OH 44657
330-868-6867

Yep, pretty far.

I found a gunsmith at Olde English Outfitters near me. He said he was pretty sure he could fix it, and wants me to drop off the rifle to take a look at it.

Most of the CZ's I've seen have a ridge on part of the bolt face, on the opposite side of the extractor. This I suppose is to hold the case in place once it snaps up under the extractor, which usually doesn't happen until the feed ramp forces the case head all the way up under the extractor ('pops' in place).

This is sort of annoying, so on a 458 to Lott conversion I just ground down just a bit of this ridge so it was flush with the bolt face, taking just enough off the ridge from the bottom away from the extractor so the cartidge head would slip up under the extractor without having to be forced up there by the feed ramp.

In your case this ridge may be interferring enough to keep the case head from coming up under the extractor. Look at it and see what you think.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Most of the CZ's I've seen have a ridge on part of the bolt face, on the opposite side of the extractor. This I suppose is to hold the case in place once it snaps up under the extractor, which usually doesn't happen until the feed ramp forces the case head all the way up under the extractor ('pops' in place).

This is sort of annoying, so on a 458 to Lott conversion I just ground down just a bit of this ridge so it was flush with the bolt face, taking just enough off the ridge from the bottom away from the extractor so the cartidge head would slip up under the extractor without having to be forced up there by the feed ramp.

In your case this ridge may be interferring enough to keep the case head from coming up under the extractor. Look at it and see what you think.

Good luck.

Will, I noticed that little bump opposite the extractor as well and came to the same exact conclusion as you did.

In fact, I went at both it and the gap between the extractor and the bolt's face with a very fine file but chickened out before removing any significant amount of metal.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I've owned two 602's and had problems with both of them. The "fix" - as my gunsmith tells me, is opening up the extractor a bit and beveling the back of the chamber "entrance."

cost was about $50.00 and they work fine with a little tune-up.

When you say "opening" the extractor, do you mean opening the gap between the inside face of the extractor and the face of the bolt?

That's what I was thinking needs to be done. I took the bolt out of both my CZ and my M70 and slowly slid a cartridge into each extractor. the M70 took far less force to get the cartridge to slide up in there.

Yes, basically there isn't enough of a gap between the extractor and bolt fact to allow the cartridge head (coming into the extractor at a slight angle) to slide under the extractor "claw."

The beveling of the chamber is a nice touch too... it will help eliminate scratched cases.

quote:

I found a gunsmith at Olde English Outfitters near me. He said he was pretty sure he could fix it, and wants me to drop off the rifle to take a look at it.

FWIW - In my experience, it's always been worth the Shipping charges to get to someone that KNOWS that they can fix it and EXACTLY HOW to fix it, and HAS fixed many of the same problems before.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
FWIW - In my experience, it's always been worth the Shipping charges to get to someone that KNOWS that they can fix it and EXACTLY HOW to fix it, and HAS fixed many of the same problems before.

OK, who do you recommend?

My CZ in 9.3x62 does the same thing, only with the left side cartridges only. I think it's not enough space between the extractor and bolt face as well.