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It always surprises me when I hear of people filling the pores on their stock with Rottenstone. It is an abrasive, and I would think it would play hell on checkering tools. I would no more consider filling pores with Rottenstone than I would use powered aluminum oxide. What to the pros think of this? I'm particularly interested in hearing from anyone who gets paid to checker... | ||
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I'm sure no pro but I fill pores with finish and sawdust from sanding. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I used it on a refinish on an old Savage 23 that has a very nice factory stock. It worked well and came out quite nice. I'll try and get a pic or two up. And yes, I've heard that it's hard on checkering tools. | |||
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Any pore filler is hard on checkering tools. Most modern finish, after it dries, is also hard on non-carbide cutters. Yes, most non-oil finish is hard on checkering tools...Carbide tools less than steel. But that is part of the cost of the job and one just charges for the replacement of the tools. One also has to have multiple tools to use just in case the first one becomes so dull one can't make good cuts. Dennis Earl Smith Professional Member ACGG Benefactor Life NRA Life NAHC | |||
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Now that I don't do my own checkering I might need to try it.   As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Filled with rottenstone:    | |||
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OK Educate me. What is the advantage of using rottenstone as a filler vs a slurry from finish and sanding dust? Quicker? Well after you guys brought it up and went online and did some research. Can't believe I've built stocks and furniture for 40+ years and never tried it. So next time I will As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I've only used it once, on the above pictured stock. I think it was two fills and sand with the rottenstone and then a couple regular sanding dust slurry. What I did notice was after drying the rottenstone did show up lighter. A light coat of stain before the final finish took care of that. | |||
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I have used bone black before ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Another thing I forgot to mention, I think the rottenstone slurry acts like, for lack of a better term, liquid sand paper. | |||
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 I've used both pumice and Rottenstone with paraffin oil to smooth out the finish. Just never used it "IN" the finish.As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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So the obvious question then is why? Why use something designed as an abrasive for a pore filler? I guess because you are using it to polish at the same time? I'm in the wood/finish slurry camp, and have added powdered charcoal to the mix for a nice effect. And I get that checkering tools wear out anyway, but why accelerate the process when you don't need to? | |||
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OK, I know you guys are going to have a field day with this, but you can also use black paint. Just paint the stock, let it dry and sand or scrape it all off. The paint will fill the pores with black and it actually looks pretty damn good after finishing. Won't harm your checkering tools either  "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". | |||
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Someone might have misunderstood the purpose of rottenstone; it is for POLISHING, not for filling. It is actual stone, powdered rock; not something you want in your stock. Wood dust and finish slurry; yes. | |||
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Jeez, I was happy with two. | |||
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I use a mixture of urethane and mineral spirits. Apply, wet sand with the same solution to cut it back and continue. Fills just fine. Choice of gloss or matte finish. Dave In 100 years who of us will care? An armed society is a polite society! Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. | |||
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It's been used and is still being used as a filler in many fine woodworking applications. | |||
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I can probably live with the extra weight.  Willing to try something new. I'm still having trouble with the advantage over a sanding dust slurry. Since the color is grey I'll need to remember to look as to the color after mixing with finish. Also have trouble seeing the sawdust slurry shrinking and swelling. I sure don't claim to be an expert just trying to learn. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Duane, Why do you see it as better to use rottenstone as a filler vs a sawdust slurry? As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Never heard of it before, and won't be doing it. Limestone as a filler? Just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I will just use wood dust; it is the same color as, well, wood. It is powdered rock, isn't it? | |||
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Thanks Duane As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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The simple truth to it is that sandpaper did not become readily available until 1900 and even then it would have been expensive and gunsmiths are traditionally C H E A P ! Wet and dry paper wasn't invented until the 1920s and again gunsmiths are C H E A P ! Until then wood was finished just as described, with rottenstone and whatever concoction of hardening boiled or unboiled oil or shellac the guy happened to have on hand. It sanded the scratches out and polished and filled the surface at the same time. Many of the old timers carried the tradition on until they died which was into the 1950s or so. As a result, many of the books that we still glean information from are from this era so the old ways still keep popping up. I happen to be a new world hatchling and I build a paste of wood slurry and finish to fill with. Not because it's better or worse, that's just the way I was taught. For those who feel it's easier on checkering tools. Well, I'm here to say that a lot of the grit from the wet & dry paper breaks up and ends up in your fill anyway and all of us that have used Dembarts or MMCs have seen the sparks flying. No matter what system you use to finish, even if you spray fill with polymers, tools wear out. Get used to it. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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And could make change without the register telling them how.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Pretty interesting..... If I put what Duane said about rottenstone being soft and combine that with what Speerchucker pointed out about aluminium oxide getting into the more modern fill it looks like it might be questionable as to which is actually more tool friendly. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I can see the Spar Varnish. That stuff is as durable and waterproof as anything ever made. In fact, I think True Oil and Linspeed were at one time a mix of boiled linseed oil and Spar Varnish. Not sure whats in the stuff now days. Was there any practical logic given to the corn starch Duane? Other than the fact that it would turn into a super-hardening glue when mixed with water based stains? One of the old glues the cabinet makers used to use was cornstarch, sugar and vinegar. If memory serves. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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My grandfather would use corn syrup, cornstarch, vinegar and cold water. Ended up a lot like that white paste we ate in grade school.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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And it was GREAT on week old bread and rat cheese. Which of course was all we had to eat back then. AND WERE DAMNED GLAD TO HAVE IT TOO ! When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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I'm curious if the rottenstone filler is still hard on carbide tools... haven't tried either yet though. You can see the silica shining in the pores of some walnut anyways, that can't be too friendly to tools. I've used spar urethane for stock finishing before and it is indeed very tough stuff but a pain in the ass to get a nice smooth topcoat compared to other finishes, at least to me. Not the easiest to repair either. Thinning it with mineral spirits to use for the initial "sealing" coats and filling pores followed by something like Tru-Oil for topcoating works well. "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." | |||
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Damn I love the "Gunsmithing Forum", you guys just KILL me...........and I learn a lot too! . | |||
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Best explanation yet on how we got to this point. What I was struggling with was who thought it up in the first place, and why. Thanks Speerchucker! Heck, all this talk about cornstarch and other stuff makes me think I can use the cast-off material from one hobby to fill the needs of another: Next batch of homebrew I think I might make a slurry of the hops and yeast sediment from my fermenter and use it to fill the pores on my latest stock. Brilliant, eh?! | |||
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Bet it smells great as well. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I imagine man started rubbing wood with sand after picking up wood on the beach and feeling how smooth the motion of water and sand had made it. It would be only natural to start rubbing spears and clubs down with sand to keep from getting slivers. The same spears and clubs would have become smoother still, harder and more water resistant with use and from oil from their hands and animal fat. All it takes is one monkey to pull his finger out of his ass long enough to scratch his head and an idea is born. Or he just picks his nose and there's another ten thousand years of evolution shot to hell. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I just came across this in Monty Kennedy's "Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks": (thanks again for the book loan Brice!) "...And be it straight linseed oil or a combination of oil and spar varnish, we want the pores well filled and the finish cut down to the surface of the wood. But, and this is a big one with me, be extremely sure that you have no silicate filler in that wood, unless you want to be overhauling you checkering tools every time you look up to get your eyes uncrossed. Nothing will beat a good spar or bartop varnish for a filler, the latter being the cream of the crop for my dough. Neither do I like pumice for a cutting agent. Yeah, I hear a howl of protest, but I am sticking to my guns. The goldanged stuff embeds in the surface and does not do tools a bit of good. Besides pumice has a habit of cutting the soft spots faster than the hard ones, which may be either filler or wood." FWIW... | |||
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That's EGG-FAWKING-ZACKERY why I'll eventually write a book on all this crap! Not because I'm always right, or that my way is better. It's because I'll be able to come back from the dead three or four generations from now and voice my narrow minded, arrogant and conceited opinion and sure as hell someone will side with me and there won't be anything that anyone else will be able to say or do because my words will be in print and their argument will fall on, well, dead ears ! Immortality, for a while at least and I don't have to kill several million people to do it. Although that's always a good plan to fall back on and it's worked well in the past. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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So; is filling the pores with accraglass and bone black considered poor form? It looks good but I haven't checkered it. Mike | |||
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Speer; I want a copy of your book;; will you autograph it for me? So start writing; and make sure to have lots of pictures. Too many of them words makes it hard for me to understand. | |||
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It will be Speer's "Gunsmith Kinks V". In the last 35 years I wore out my Brownel's versions I-IV.  Have to have funny pictures and cartoons. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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More like "Speer's Kinky Gunsmiths". Jon Larsson - Hunter - Shooter - Reloader - Mostly in that order...  | |||
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Man has been polishing his wood since, well, since probably Eve had her first headache!! | |||
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As to pumice, it is different from rottenstone. Rottenstone is a mixture of limestone and silica. Pumice is primarily silicon dioxide. Silica is microcrystaine quartz (#7 on the Mohs hardness scale), which is the same thing an Arkansas stone is made of, and is much harder than limestone, which is primarily calcium carbonate (#3 on the Mohs hardness scale) which is what chalk is made of. If you want to avoid silica, do not use kitty liter, which is usually diatomite, which is made up of the silica-based shells of tiny sea creatures (diatoms). One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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