I heard a rumor that Dakota Arms has been sold... Has anyone else heard this?

What???!!!

I hope this is not true. Dakota has been a great company the risk with a new owner is that quality and style goes down the drain and it becomes a sloppy company that doesn't give a s**t

/ JOHAN

I heard the same thing from a dealer. The person that told me couldn't/wouldn't say who bought them. I guess we'll have to just wait and see if it's true.

The sale of the company should not be a surprise with the recent passing of Don Allen. I pray the remainder of his family is doing OK. I'll miss him.

redleg

Although I am saddened by the passing of Don Allen, the best thing for the future of Dakota would be to get his widow as far away from the company as possible. I met her at SCI and swore I would never purchase a Dakota because she is so rude and belligerent.

500 - Be nice. Norma is a very knowledgeable lady operating in man�s world. If you took her to be too gruff, you missed the true Norma. She has always been very helpful and I have known her for more than 10 years.

I have no idea if the company will (or has been) sold, but Dakota will survive Don�s passing.

Zero, I was trying to be nice, but Norma was outrageous. She does not even have 1/10th the manners of Mr. Alphin, who is much maligned as it is.

FWIW,
I was seriously considering a Dakota 76 in .257 Roberts until I spoke with that lady. Rude honestly would'nt cover it. I wish her no ill will, however, I would have to agree Dakota would likely sell more rifles without that type of representative.

Regards, Matt.

I am surprised at the reports of Norma Allan being rude... I called and spoke to her on the telephone many times and she was always very courtious. I also meet her at SCI and again she was very nice to speak to.

We ended up ordering two rifles, on two different occasions, from Dakota and Norma was a pleasure to deal with.

GPT

My experience with Dakota in the past goes something like this:

You think you're getting a semi-custom rifle that'll shoot, and it won't shoot well at all....

You think you're getting a certain grade of wood and you're getting something else (meaning a lesser grade of wood).....

You clearly tell them what you want - they tell you what they think you want to hear - then they deliver something else (meaning you end up greatly disappointed with the finished product)....

You think you're getting a rifle designed from the ground up by a professional stockmaker, but you end up with a rifle that comes complete with a misshapen pistol grip that belongs on a shotgun, plus a finish that's only suitable for dry-weather hunting conditions..........

All-in-all, I'd buy Dakota with a great many reservations, but in reality, I'd rather not do business with the Dakota folks I've delt with before, simply because I don't like being misled, and I don't like the downright onery, angry, hard-nose attitudes I've been handed on what amounts to a dirty paper plate that's been decorated with half-truths as garnishment.......

Small, independent custom riflemakers are the folks I'd rather write a check to, even at a greater cost..........

AD

A sale was considered, prior to Don Allen's passing. What the company plans are is currently unknown... as expected.

My experience w/ Norma and the whole crew at Dakota has been exemplary. Way beyond the call of duty and way beyond the typical response of RemWinSav.

I have two of their rifles, courtesy of RMEF banquets ( a national and a local) and in BOTH cases, they have been courteous and completely professional when adressing minor issues surrounding their M-76s.

Norma volunteered her time to be on the local Industrial Expansion Cmte, results: Sturgis is a hotbed of firearms manufacturies. Don had similar interests in promoting/improving the business atmosphere in the community.

IMHO, the rumours and condemnation sound like sour grapes to me.

... and Allen, I have exactly the opposite experience with them. Because of the number of guns involved (4) and the expense ($$$$) I spent two days in Sturgis making sure the guns were going to be built to my specifications and my expectations. Don and Norma could not have been easier to work with. Don and I climbed through his extensive wood collection to hand select 4 matching Bastogne blanks (he didn�t charge me extra for the wood nor several other custom items). In addition, we whittled on the numbers even more before I left Sturgis. (I saved several thousand + per rifle.)

I made my deposit and waited. My only complaint was it took several more months than they estimated. When finished, I returned to Sturgis to inspect the guns and to make my final payment. I did find one gun which did not have a jeweled bolt, this was fixed in very short order.

As far as accuracy performance at the range, I could not ask more from a hunting rifle. All are consistently sub MOA off the bench with a mechanical rest. I did have a problem with .416 Dakota brass not headspacing properly, however, I resolved this with no real worries.

Maybe the difference between your experience and mine was the investment of time I made in the process. I would not purchase a custom gun from anyone without first sitting down with them knee to knee and eye to eye. I certainly would not pay for something that was not up to my expectations.

I will most likely never have Dakota build another rifle for me, however, I have had no reservations recommending them to others.

Sysephus, I don't make up any testimony - either positive or negative. I have no motivation to do so either way. I report my own experiences, since those are the ones I know best. Any comment I might have about my Dakota experiences that are not positive in nature were not brought on by me, they were brought on brought on by the good folks in Sturgis, SD. If those comments don't fit your pistol, too damn bad..........

Zero, I'll just say this: Over the years on these boards, I've certainly come to respect you, and I respect your opinions - even those I don't agree with. I know you're honest, and that you're a man of integrity, common-sense, and experience.

It sounds like your visits to Sturgis have paid-off, and maybe that's the best method for getting what you want out of Dakota. What I attempted to accomplish with Dakota years ago simply didn't not work out to anyone's satisfaction.

AD

AD

[ 06-10-2003, 21:47: Message edited by: allen day ]

Allen - I certainly was not suggesting otherwise. I was simply sharing my experiences with Dakota...

To All:

I just returned from a visit with Dakota Arms. It has, in fact, been sold although it is not being advertised as such. The news release issued on May 14, is titled "Dakota Arms, Inc. Secures Multi-Million Dollar Private Financing; Technology Funding Venture Partners Leads Investment Group" and continues "Dakota Arms, Inc., a privately held firearms manufacturer, announced today it has received a multi-million dollar private equity placement. The lead investor is Technology Funding Venture Partners of Sacramento, CA, and Santa Fe, NM. The investment group includes another Santa Fe venture capital firm and individual investors."

Later in the release, it states, "Norma Allen will become president of Dakota. The Allens (written before Don passed away) will be joined on Dakota's board of directors by Amin Dadr-al-Din and Charles Kokesh, who will serve as chairman."

In another press release, the "new" Dakota Arms announced the acquisition of Nesika Bay Precision, Inc. of Poulsbo, Washington and the role of Nesika's founders as VP-Engineering and VP-Manufacturing for the merged company."

Whether the legal terminology technically constitutes a purchase or not, I can't say. I can say that Mr. Kokesh is definitely in the driver's seat. How it will all pan out remains to be seen. I did get the definite impression that the acquisition of Nesika will not be the only one in the near future.

As far as the various comments on the quality of the Dakota product and Norma Allen's personality, I can only report on what I have seen and experienced. The three Dakota rifles that I own are all exceptionally accurate and I have no complaints on the quality of the rifles. As far as the styling goes, I think it superb although that is my subjective judgement. Others may and obviously do feel differently about it.

While I have personally never in the 25 years that I have known her, witnessed any conduct from Norma other than warmth and kindness, I have heard from others that they would prefer not dealing with her. Supposedly, she was, in their view, abrasive to them. If that is true, and again, I haven't seen it, then perhaps that is a personality trait with her. Heck, we even have a few abrasive personalities on this forum from time to time.

Finally, the biggest dog fight's I've ever seen resulted over the grading of wood. One guy's Exhibition grade is another's XXX or even worse, XX. There is no standard grading criteria and it would be very difficult to establish one. The only way to buy wood, at least in my opinion,is to personally select it.

Tom

Tom, thanks for the information. I had heard the same thing this spring from a good friend of the Allens.

I hope the company prospers in their new ownership or leadership. I don't think that anyone was ever surprised by the quality of the workmanship on Dakota rifles, they have had a sterling reputation for years. I saw one disute on here regarding wood selection on an upgrade and Norma Allen supplied another stock to the customer with no argument. Their stocks may not be what everyone desires in a rifle but they have a good following and are well recieved by a lot of the buying public and that is what has put them in the position they are. So often you see people that think that "their" favored stock shape is the be all of all designs. And it may be for them, but the classification does not transfer to everyone. Thankfully a lot of the shooting public has a more open mind.

Although some people might like Norma and have had no problems with Dakota firearms, the complaints are far too numerous for a healthy business. The true custom gunmakers have very few if any complaints, and they offer a lot more for the money than Dakota.

I hope the company can survive and make a transition to competent corporate management that provides a quality product every time with friendly customer service. From what I have heard, Dakota may have been losing 25-35% of its potential customers due to a combination of rudeness, quality problems and disappointed customers.

Something about that old saying "Where there's smoke there's fire" seems an apt description of Mrs. Allen's behavior to a number of people.

Slingster

If you had a good relation with them I guess you are up for a discount

How are these persons and how do you think it will affect Dakota arms

/ JOHAN

Numbers do not lie: In the first quarter of 2003, Dakota has taken more orders on guns than in the whole year of 2002. Apparently these people are not questioning the quality and service provided.

I imagine that most who don't like Dakota are not really in the market that Dakota has aimed at. In other words, similar to the situation with Weatherby.

Mike

I don't know about others, but I have spent more on rifles than Dakota charges, but I am not in the market for a Dakota any more.

Being a former employee of Dakota, it is true that the quality has gone down in years. But actually they have be going down hill since Pete Grisel left. The turn around in employees is very high there. In most part do to Norma's attitude. I have to go. I will post later.

I hunted with a PH in Africa several months ago that said he had met and was planning to work with a gentlemen that had purchased a portion of Dakota from Don. I don't recall the man's name (it didn't sound familar at the time) but I assumed the partial sale was public knowledge.

Kyler

I like my Dakota 76 alot..my favorite rifle. Everytime I've spoken with the folks their, they've been good to me. I don't know when the quality change took place that Jonsey speaks of...but mine is a VERY low 4 digit serial number gun and the quality is immpeccable.

Jim

338Lapua your right, the lower the serial number the better dakota rifle you have.

I didn't get a chance to talk about Don Allen. Don was always easy to get along with and willing to give you a hand or a deal. Until recently Don wasn't around much, so everyone had to deal with Norma. I am sorry to see the passing of Don.

As far as the new owners, all I know is that it is a corporation and they are moving some company into the north end of the Dakota building.

I read earlier about Norma bringing in gunbuilders through her involvement in the industrial expantion. I have several things to comment on that. Rich Iverson has done more for the industrial expantion than Norma. And two, it really isn't a hard sell. Western South Dakota is extremely suppressed and skilled labor and property is cheap. Dakota's starting wage is close to minimum wage and the machinists and foremen are between $9.00 and $11.00 an hour, hence another reason for the turn around of employees. The local gunshops are full of dakota rifles they can't sell.

Pertaining to another post, I believe the reasoning behind trying to sell you a rifle they want you to have is because the inventory room is full.

In reply to another post, the process of selling out was in action before Don passed. I don't see if a business was doing so great why it would be scrambling for buyers. Norma would never want to sell if she could help it, due to the lust of her status. I would like to believe that to Don it was still the product. In the beginning, part owner Pete Grisel didn't let a rifle go out the door unless it was perfect. It was Pete that initially set the quality standards. Not many rifles would go out the door now days if he was still there.

Last year I hand the chance to handle and examine a fine custom rifle (in .250 Savage!) that was built with Lambert metalwork and a Don Allen stock, and it was a real masterpiece. The stock was built before Dakota Arms came into being, and as far as I'm concerned, the pistol grip style of that rifle offered better appearance and control than the style that was later developed for the Dakota rifle. I wish I had the ability to pass that rifle around so that everyone could see and feel the difference for themselves.

I hope the new Dakota prospers, and I do appreciate what they're trying to do. I had heard several years ago that the company was available for purchase. Quite honestly, the concept of a semi-production/semi-custom rifle is a little hard for me to buy into, as it's hard to truly achieve both objectives in one package.

I've mentioned this before on this thread, but I'd rather deal with small, independent custom riflemakers who will build a rifle to my specs and then test it before it goes out the door. I enjoy the finished product better, and every time I take the rifle hunting, I'm also taking a reminder of the friendship I've developed with the riflemaker with me. You can also find second-hand, famous-maker custom rifles with all the features you'd ever want for less than the price of getting the same rifle built from scratch or for even less than the price of a new Dakota with similar features........

.......It's either go that route or purchase a pre-64 Model 70 or Browning High-Power (for around a $1000 or so for a fine one) and go hunting.

AD

A friend of mine bought a new .300 Dakota. Not cheap!! We fired it with some ammo loaded with the starting load in the Barnes manual for Re 22 and the 165-grain Barnes X bullet, new Dakota cases. We got blown primers. I noted that .308" bullets were hard to get back into the necks of the fired cases. We called Dakota, and they said "send the gun back", which we did. They "checked it out", anmd returned the gun, saying "we found nothing wrong with the rifle."

We tested it again, and, lo and behold, the same loads we tried before worked fine!! .308" bullets fell easily into the fired cases, unlike the first test. Now, tell me they didn't increase the throat diameter a little after we sent it back!! Right!! It's OK now!!

I think a peek with a borescope might be in order. If the throat was opened and it is much larger than groove diameter, the rifle's inherent accuracy may suffer. If it was done well, it may not. Look for a sharp step at the throat/bore-groove interface. Here's hoping there is none.

Eldeguelo--Sounds like they forgot to throat the
chamber right. IE using separate chamber and
throating reamers.Ed.

eldeguello---

I don't think they did anything to the throat.......they obviously increased the size of the neck. Somebody used a tight necked reamer in that barrel. Dakota used to offer tight necks for those that wanted to turn necks for uniformity.

That *could* have been distasterous.

I am NOT surprised that 500 did not include the Dakota in his reply to the Topic: What firearm do you dislike the most? posted by duckear....

quote:

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500grains posted 06-16-2003 04:59 I can't limit it to one, so let me list Browning, Weatherby, Remington, Winchester push feed and Savages made since 1960.

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I guess he must really like NEF, BF Rifles, Harrington Richardson, Colt, Tikka, Smith & Wesson, Ballard, Marlin Spencer, Husquavarna, Sako etc. cause he didn't condemn THEM

J. Belk Thanks. I should have said "increased the NECK DIAMETER !! I do know the difference, or used to know, before I got old and senile!!