I am going to purchase a rifle for a friend who is planning to hunt elk for the first time this year. Money is an issue but I would like to see him get into a reliable CRF action in 338 Win. I have never owned a MkII and was wondering what board members' opinions of this rifle are. I know the trigger needs to be replaced, any other mitigating factors? I can get a stainless/laminate rifle here for $499. Winchesters are quite a bit higher and I have been dissapointed with their quality lately. Thanks!
Posts: 767 | Location: Seeley Lake Montana | Registered: 17 April 2002
I have an MK 11 in stainless synthetic in 30/06 and the rifle has never let me down, I have a 3-9 leupold mounted on it and it will provide 1.5 to 2" groups at 100 yards, it seems to shoot two shots well under the inch and then the third shot throws the group, this may have to do with the boat paddle stock forend. The rifle always feeds and ejects flawlessly and pretty well kills everything I point it at, the accuracy suits the sort of hunting I do with it. As a rugged hunting rifle it is great.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
My first big game rifle was a Left hand M77 in 270 I got it when I was 15. I bought it brand new and have shot about 10 deer with it almost all were one shot kills and most shots were off hand. The past few years the M77 has been collecting dust and "better" rifles have been taken hunting. Last year I decided to try my hand at some beginer gunsmithing and the old 270 was the test subject. I glass beded it and gave it a trigger job. It now shoots under an inch for five at 100 and does so all of the time. I also have a M77 in 7mm Rem that I gave the same treatement to and it also shoots under and inch now. While I was playing around with these rifles I took quite a few shots off hand with each and found that I could shoot these things very well. In fact better than anything else I own (not counting my Cz452 in 22Lr). I do not know why this is but it is true. I have guns with better triggers and stocks that seem to fit me better but when shooting off hand none work as well as the Rugers. I am now in the process of looking for a M77 lefty action to make a 338 win. This will replace a custom 338 on a Mauser action that is supposedly a better gun, well it looks a whole lot better! Some times you just have to go with what works, of couse I seemed to know that way back when I was 15, before I became a gun snob!! Yet another lesson learned.
Posts: 104 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 24 June 2003
I get a fairly steady flow of MkII traffic through my shop, mostly finishing what the factory started, or, making improvements (same thing). These rifles are not the usual subject of camp fire discussions but are more than capable of doing what they need to. I would not run out and replace the factory trigger. The factory trigger can be tuned.
Oh yeah, you might want to be careful about making gun purchases for other folks. "Big Brother" frowns on those type of transactions...
The Ruger is a fine example of a factory rifle. I believe the new ones are capable of pretty good accuracy. The factory trigger is not that great, but can be tuned fairly easily. A Timney is the way to go IMHO, but not absolutely necessary. From a quality standpoint, I'd buy a Ruger before any Winchester or Remington, and I'd have to look closely at a Browning before buying it, they've went downhill in quality along with the others. Right now I have two MKII in the safe, a .308 UL and a 77R .243. The first 4 shots out of the .243's new barrel went into less than an inch, if you throw out the first shot, the remaining 3 went into just a little over 1/4". Not bad in my book with no tuning whatsoever. The .308 is a solid 1" or less gun. I know you can't base your opinion on two examples, but it's a good omen. You'll hear people cuss and discuss the merits and drawbacks of the Ruger action. But, in all honesty, any bolt gun made, if made correctly, can shoot really well, and the opposite holds true too, some shoot terrible. I'd rather have a bolt gun that shoots, rather than say I only buy Brownings or Rugers or whatever. I'm not married to any brand. Remember "the only interesting gun is an accurate one" (paraphrase). If I had to order a gun without inspecting it, I'd probably order a Ruger. I've even seen CZ's that won't shoot and that were fitted incorrectly to the stock, and some people swear by them. So, I think you've made a good start.
Weel, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've owned several rugers, including the tang safety models, Rem700s, 788s, Win70s, etc etc, my current Ruger is the MkII stainless/laminate in 270Win, has a Leupold Vari-x2 3-9x40 scope, has been glass bedded, free floated, Timney trigger, which I fitted myself, using factory ammo, is pretty ordinary, but when fed handloads, it will put 110 and 130 gr bullets into the same point of impact at 100 and 200 yards, with half MOA (3 shot groups) accuracy. I would have no hesitation in recommending one. As far as finish and fit goes, I have had alook at the latest rems and wins, and wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!
Posts: 1275 | Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia | Registered: 02 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by G.Malmborg: Oh yeah, you might want to be careful about making gun purchases for other folks. "Big Brother" frowns on those type of transactions...
Generally there's no problem under federal law as long as they're both residents of the same state and the recipient isn't otherwise prohibited (i.e. he's not a felon, drug addict, alien, etc.).
I like my 77 MK II quite well, although I did go with the Timney trigger and also restocked it. Shoots about 1" with its better handloads.
Posts: 1246 | Location: Northern Virginia, USA | Registered: 02 June 2001
Thanks to all for the advice, we've decided to go with the Ruger. He's still deciding what to do with the trigger. I truely appreciate the input.
As for the purchase, he is also a MT resident and not restricted in any way other than being stuck on an Air Force base (island) until ofter the opener. I wanted to be able to have the rifle ready for him when he returns.
Posts: 767 | Location: Seeley Lake Montana | Registered: 17 April 2002
If person (a) gives person (b) money to purchase person (a) a firearm, if person (b) fills out the 4473, then person (b) has violated the law. On the other hand, if person (b) takes his own money and purchases a firearm and then gives it to person (a) as a gift, then that is fine, unless, person (b) knows that person (a) would otherwise be prohibited from making his/her own purchases. The line is fine and in today's times, would not be worth the ensuing trouble. So be careful.
In keeping with the original topic, the Ruger would make a fine gift.
Malm- Person (a) me, is a hell of a guy (if a says so himself!) and is going to give person (b) this rifle as a gift. If I happen to get a gift in return, hey, what comes around....Thanks for the counsel. Good Hunting Jay Kolbe
Posts: 767 | Location: Seeley Lake Montana | Registered: 17 April 2002
quote:Originally posted by snowcat: I am going to purchase a rifle for a friend who is planning to hunt elk for the first time this year. Money is an issue but I would like to see him get into a reliable CRF action in 338 Win. I have never owned a MkII and was wondering what board members' opinions of this rifle are. I know the trigger needs to be replaced, any other mitigating factors? I can get a stainless/laminate rifle here for $499. Winchesters are quite a bit higher and I have been dissapointed with their quality lately. Thanks!
At a gun show the other day I had to do a double take on a rifle as I walked by. There was a brand new Mk II in, of all things, .264 Winchester Mag! I have not seen any mention of one in their literature nor have I seen a new rifle of any brand in that caliber in years.
Posts: 323 | Location: Keithville, La. USA | Registered: 14 February 2002
If person (a) gives person (b) money to purchase person (a) a firearm, if person (b) fills out the 4473, then person (b) has violated the law. On the other hand, if person (b) takes his own money and purchases a firearm and then gives it to person (a) as a gift, then that is fine, unless, person (b) knows that person (a) would otherwise be prohibited from making his/her own purchases. The line is fine and in today's times, would not be worth the ensuing trouble. So be careful.
In keeping with the original topic, the Ruger would make a fine gift.
Malm
Malm,
You are correct on all counts -- I was reading the situation as a gift -- which according to Snowcat appears to be the case.
John
Posts: 1246 | Location: Northern Virginia, USA | Registered: 02 June 2001
The 2 MKII's that I've owned would have benefited greatly with addition of a bayonet lug. One grouped 4"@100yds so I traded it in on another and it groups 6"@100yds. I'm sure a good one rolls off the assembly line every now and then but I've never seen it.
If you go this route I do hope you get a shooter
Terry
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002
I have liked and have had good luck with M77 Rugers both before and after they blew it by taking the safety off the tang, where they should have left it. However, the CRF bolt/extractor alteration was an improvement.
Don't get him the laminated stock version... the M77 MKII is heavy enough without sporting a 38 oz stock! The newest plastic version is about the stiffest of all the "tupperware" factory stocks an only weighs 30 oz's... the laminated version with a sling, scope and three rounds is going to push 9.25 lbs + (depending on scope and sling).
Forget about that and you can buy a Tikka T3 for the same money you would spend on the Ruger. Not only that, you'll be money ahead because you won't be wasting it on correcting things like the trigger and the bedding. Tikks comes with those issues done right from the start.
The Tikka trigger is one of the sweetest factory triggers around.
Buy a Tikka, and you won't have to wonder if it will shoot right.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by Brad: Don't get him the laminated stock version... the M77 MKII is heavy enough without sporting a 38 oz stock! The newest plastic version is about the stiffest of all the "tupperware" factory stocks an only weighs 30 oz's... the laminated version with a sling, scope and three rounds is going to push 9.25 lbs + (depending on scope and sling).
I once handled this rifle with the synthetic stock but decided afterwards to get the laminated version. I was indeed surprised about the difference in weight, it is in fact not very easy to carry. On the other hand, since it is a .338 WM and we hunt mostly from stands, I put a 8x56 mm scope on it and use it for boar at night. The additional weight is thus an advantage because it limits recoil.
Maybe I should get another one in 30/06 with the synthetic stock as a carry rifle for stalking...
Posts: 8211 | Location: Germany | Registered: 22 August 2002
To me , the reciever looks extremely bulky and the plastic trigger guard and magazine leave me cold . The tupperware on the synthetic stocked Tikkas has to be THE flimsiest on any factory rifle . The recoil lug is a joke .
I have had a number of Rugers and all have shot well , without fussing over any bedding . Excellent rings come with the rifle and then all it needs is a trigger job any 16 year old can do .
Personally , I think a weight of around 9 lbs scoped is just about right for a .338 magnum .
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001
I am not a fan of the move from metal work to plastic in firearms, but Tikka's generally shoot very, very well straight from the box and are a reliable and economical as well.
I have not seen the synthetic stocked versionm but their steel/wood models are very popular in the UK as they are percieved to offer excellent value. I have not heard of any failures of the plastic parts and dispite my own preference for steel, it would seem the plastic parts in question are entirely functional and reliable in use.
Regards,
Pete
Posts: 5684 | Location: North Wales UK | Registered: 22 May 2002
I have one that is stainless and has the boat paddle stock in .308 Winchester. I put a Timney trigger on it and have to say I love it. It gives 5 shot groups that hover around 0.75 MOA if I use a stiff load of H380. The load I finally settled on is 52 grains WW748, 150 grain Nosler Ballistic tips, and CCI large rifle primers. Still gives MOA accuracy and around 2800 fps with no signs of pressure, which is plenty for deer around here. No it is not the most aesthetically pleasing firearm that I own. But it never looses zero and is a pleasure to carry all day. I have to say that for the money I think it was a very good purchase.
TC1 you must be extremely unlucky...I have never had a 77 that shot bad not matter what the variation..tang safety..intl MKII etc...the last 2 I bought 7 rem mag and 338 are consistent accurate shooters. As far as Tiikas go I held a T3 2 weeks ago at a local Bass Pro shop...No thank you...so the bolt is smooth..(seemed to be the salesmens selling point in the conversation) and the trigger is set nicely...the freaking gun is a POS piece of plastic (floorplate and magazine) and the recoil lug is a joke like someone else pointed out here.
Posts: 1779 | Location: Southeast | Registered: 31 March 2003
Pete.......while the Tikka may be a good value , equivalent model Rugers can be bought for about $100 less than Tikka in these parts.......when it come to value in a tough hunting rilfe , Ruger is really in a class by itself .
While the plastic parts may be functional , personally , I would just as soon have pot metal........
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001
quote:Originally posted by Bobby: Just curious, are the T3's as heavy as the other Tikka sporters? My shooting partner has a Tikka sporter in 25-06 and it weighs a ton.
Nope. They seem to be about 1/2 lb lighter.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by sdgunslinger: Pete.......while the Tikka may be a good value , equivalent model Rugers can be bought for about $100 less than Tikka in these parts.......when it come to value in a tough hunting rilfe , Ruger is really in a class by itself .
While the plastic parts may be functional , personally , I would just as soon have pot metal........
If someone near you is selling Tikkas for $100 more than Rugers, you are being ripped off. Besides, with sites like gunbroker.com and gunsamerica.com, it doesn't matter what the locals sell for.
You can find Whitetail Hunters and T3s for $450 to $475 on gunsamerica all day long. That, coincidentally, is what NIB Rugers go for on that site as well.
As far as plastic parts, a rifle's only mission in life is to kill. Not to look good, or be an art object, or a machining project.
If 1/2 plastic pistols (Glocks) are good enough for armies and police forces around the world, a little bit of plastic on a rifle is good enough for me.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by sdgunslinger: Why the hangup over Tikkas ?
The recoil lug is a joke .
Maybe you don't understand as mych as you think you do about rifle design.
If the bedding and recoil lug on a Tikka is such a joke, how come they are so consistently accurate straight out of the box, without any screwing around?
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by sdgunslinger: Pete.......while the Tikka may be a good value , equivalent model Rugers can be bought for about $100 less than Tikka in these parts.......when it come to value in a tough hunting rilfe , Ruger is really in a class by itself .
While the plastic parts may be functional , personally , I would just as soon have pot metal........
If someone near you is selling Tikkas for $100 more than Rugers, you are being ripped off. Besides, with sites like gunbroker.com and gunsamerica.com, it doesn't matter what the locals sell for.
You can find Whitetail Hunters and T3s for $450 to $475 on gunsamerica all day long. That, coincidentally, is what NIB Rugers go for on that site as well.
As far as plastic parts, a rifle's only mission in life is to kill. Not to look good, or be an art object, or a machining project.
If 1/2 plastic pistols (Glocks) are good enough for armies and police forces around the world, a little bit of plastic on a rifle is good enough for me.
It makes little difference what the guns sell for off gunsamerica . I still have to pay a local dealer to get a rifle ; from $20 to maybe 10 % , depending on how greedy he is . A little over a year ago I bought Ruger stainless/synthetic for $430 across the counter. An equivalent Tikka at the time was $500 + . And I got a much stiffer stock with the Ruger .
If a rifle with plastic parts trips your trigger , by all means go for it . It seems to me that you mentioned owning a Sako , Orion . Since you only care if the rifle will go bang and kill something , you , by your own critetia , wasted around $600......
If the Tikkas shoot so well , it is in spite of the recoil lug , not because of it. I doubt that you would promote a pinned on lug as good engineering . Cost cutting and cheap engineering maybe , but not good engineering .
I can't balk about the Tikka's too much, they do have a reputation of shooting very well. They are just not my cup of tea. They're a fine gun, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying one. The Ruger is pleasing to the eye as well as a very classic design. It looks like a rifle should look. Although I like the look of the new stainless laminated Ruger's, I don't care for the extra weight, but everything is a trade-off. To be truthful, I love to see a walnut stock and deeply blued action. It reminds me of days gone by. My father never had a stainless rifle in his life and he got along fine. I like stainless guns and they are easier to take care of, but for traditional looks a blued Ruger is my favorite. I have three and will probably buy more. I've had my moments with Ruger's that refused to shoot. They all reside with someone else now. But then again, I've shown the door to several Remingtons, Winchesters, Weatherbys, and Brownings also, so I guess it's a wash. They're all good designs, it's the execution that needs work. You can argue all day long about recoil lugs, tupperware stocks, and factory triggers, the truth is, they're all good designs. When you get a good one, they're the greatest gun on earth, and when they won't shoot no matter what you do, they need to look for other accomodations, 'cause they ain't stayin' with me!
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One grouped 4"@100yds so I traded it in on another and it groups 6"@100yds. ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon}
I'm sure a good one rolls off the assembly line every now and then but I've never seen it. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon}
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