Re: Different Dakota action for Rigby?

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I hope Matt understands what happens when you take the closely clearenced receiver out on a real hunt and just happen to get it a little dirty.

yeah...I've got a handle on that one. Tolearances are kept tight where they need to be in order for the rifle to perform very accurately, but left looser in the receiver raceways to eliminate gauling or sticky bolts. At the moment of truth, the mating surfaces will align properly, providing a very accurate and concentric relationship between, barrel, bolt, and receiver.

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Why would you want to modify on a new custom action when you have the ability to machine stuff to such close tolerances?????????????

Well here's the scenario....Guy buys a standard bolt face long action receiver....spends some money down the road on stock, 30 cal barrel, then after several months, or a couple of years, decides that he now wants a 300 mag, rather than the 30-06 that he had originally planned the reciever for.
If he calls us up, we'll provide the accurate information that his smith will need to modify the receiver properly, as well as providing a mag box and follower for that cartridge.
If I had a nickel for everytime I've seen and or heard that almost exact thing happen, I'd be a rich man.

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Looks to me like class clown is just documenting manufacturing processes that rifle manufacturers have been using for years. Case hardened "the best!!!" are allways harder and 4140 type actions are allways softer and not as smooth.

Through hardening is softer than case hardening, but there's a world of difference between running around 30-32RC, and getting it up to 42-43.
Many times people immediately equate the differences between the post-64 classics and pre-64's in regards to smoothness to only the heat treat, but they fail to see that the action was engineered to support the bolt better throughout it's entire stroke by use of the lug on the side, rather than a groove that's only supporting the front end of the bolt.
The old Ruger 77's were very smooth too, and they also had that lug. Mauser also used the lug but in the upright position.
As long as there is ample running clearance between the bolt and receiver, and hardness is in excess of 40 with a secondary lug for stabilization, it will be smooth as snot.

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Why don't you use the forging process you use in the manufacture of your guards???? Doesn't 4140 machine like $h!t in it's unhardened state? Vs. the finish quality of Pre Hard.

We will be utilizing a forging for our receivers in the future, but solid barstock will be used for the first.
4140 can be machined like butter with the proper tools.....much faster than preheatreat 4140.

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The first part here kind of makes me think you have little respect for those very talented individuals who still turn the handles by hand, and you allways point out that CNC is so much better. Another one of those ever present marketing plugs. I'm not saying the marketing is wrong, just obvious. EDM is another cool thing to promote, but I don't think it can produce a better trigger/sear surface than the best abrasives. If you can produce an action that equalls the quality of fit, finish, function, and tolerance of the Commerical Mausers made on Manual machines without even high speed steel cutters then you really will have something. If you're looking to get them into $10,000+ rifles then they better look & work like a Mauser or M70, or the deep pocket collectors may not be so receptive to the "Latest and Greatest" Action design regardless of the tolerance!

gunmaker

Well, If I had little respect for manual machinist, I'd be quite the hyprocrite, sense that's how I started, and still do a lot of things on manual equipment everyday.
I've ran a lot of manual equipment over the years, and have made a lot of tedious and highly complicated parts with them, but I know what my limitations are, as much as I know what the machines limitations are, and there's a limit as to what kind of precision, and repeatability day-after-day to can obtain with manual equipment. There are machining techniques that can be done on CNC that cannot be done on manual equipment that produce consistently accurate parts.
Our goal is to reduce the time that it takes for the gunmakers to finish their completed rifles. If all they need to do is fit the barrel, perhaps bead blast it, blue it, fit it for a stock, that reduces the time that they have to spend in their shop to obtain equal to better results. That makes for happy customers, and repeat customers.

What I mentoned wasn't a "ever present marketing plug", it was a known fact about the capabilities of CNC equipment as opposed to conventional equipment. I wasn't trying to step on your toes or belittle you, just making an obvious statement based on experience and common sense.

As far as the Wire EDM process for producing the trigger and sear, the highly acclaimed "Jewel Trigger" uses this same method on their internal parts. Why??? Because it is extremely accurate, much more so than machining, as well as being able to produce superb surface finishes that would never need to be stoned. Sear engagement can be held to tighter than .0002" all day long, sometimes as tight as .00005" when running extremely slow under the right circumstances, providing that the rest of the assembly is machined accurately as well. Adjustment of the trigger spring should be the only trigger work necessary.

Posts: 1021 | Location: Prineville, OR 97754 | Registered: 14 July 2002

TC1

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Hey Matt, When are we going to see some of these actions and what is the target price for one?

Thanks,
Terry

Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002

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triggerguard1

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Looks like it didn't work...guess I'll wait till tomorrow and get it up through hunt101

Posts: 1021 | Location: Prineville, OR 97754 | Registered: 14 July 2002

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triggerguard1

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Triggerguard

I am just curious. I know a little bit about manual machining but not much about all of this newfangled stuff. I don't recall a dial indicator that measures to .00005.
Is that hundred thousands? Anyway, what is used to make such small measurements!!!

Blue

Dial and digital bore gauges are capable of that accuracy, as well as test indicators to name a couple.

Here's a pic of mine. Hunt101 is down on uploading pics, so I hope the yahoo thing works.
[image]http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/triggerguard1/detail?.dir=/2569&.dnm=1094.jpg[/image]

Posts: 1021 | Location: Prineville, OR 97754 | Registered: 14 July 2002

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