The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing P.O. Ackley vs. P.O. Ackley, IncGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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How do you tell the differnce in a gun that was made or customized by P.O. Ackley versus a gun that just has one of the barrels that was made by the company he founded. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Didn't you and I have this discussion? P.O. Ackley stamped his work "P.O. Ackley". If the barrel is stamped "P.O. Ackley Inc" then it isn't his work. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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That is what my original 60yr+ smith told me many years ago. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Well then whose work was it? Someone who bought the rigths to his name? The source of your information is personal experience? The reason I ask is I tried to explain this to someone and they didn't believe me. I believe you...I am just curious now. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, P.O. Ackley employed many, many smiths in his commercial shop, in fact the initial impetus for the gunsmithing program at Trinidad was Ackley's need for relatively competent workmen. He persuaded the local junior college (TSJC) that the GI Bill's funding of a gunsmithing program would be an irresistible attraction for many ex-GIs throughout the entire country and therefore a source of increased revenue for the school. He later moved his company from Trinidad to Utah, and a few of his former employees stayed in Trinidad to teach. IMO many and almost certainly most of the Ackley-marked rifles were not actually made by Ackley himself but were rather the products of his shop. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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A similar question could be asked of a great many gunsmiths who became famous while still alive and working themselves. If their clientele grew to the point where they hired anyone to do anything for or to a gun, there is a possibility they didn't do all, most, or even ANY of the work on a particular firearm. What REALLY is the difference between a gun made with Niedner's hands, Ackley's hands, any other famous smith's hands, and the work of their shops? How much of the work does the 'smith have to do himself for it to be one of his guns? 100%, 90%, 75%, where do we draw the line? (If the assistant(s) in his shop does ANY of the work, is it a lesser product? Often it was the 'famous 'smith" who taught how the work was done, and arguably always the "famous 'smith" whose name and reputation stood behind the work and was accountable for its quality. The same is also true of bullet-makers, barrel-makers, even some stock-makers. Great artisans are great not only because of their own manual skills, but because of their abilities to "see", design, teach and supervise making of, and deliver great products in their respective fields | |||
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AC, I think there is a difference here in that it is my understanding that barrels in volume were manufacutred by Ackley's company and those barrels were stamped P.O. Ackley, Inc. and that those barrels may have been sold just as barrels too many gunsmiths who may have installed them or been installed by the P.O. Ackley, Inc company much like PacNor or Hart will install barrels today. Likewise what if a gunmaker like Wiebe stopped producing custom guns 7 years ago and then went into the volume barrel making business and both sold barrles and had crew of machinists who simply threaded and installed barrels and he marked those barrels Wiebe, Inc. There would be a huge difference between a Wiebe custom and CZ 550 with a Wiebe, Inc barrel screwed into it. I am trying to undertsand the details. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike - That's why I answered your first post with questions....I am not sure how much difference it makes. To some degree, likely that depends on who the "famous" gunsmith is. As I understand it, Duane already has a partner who helps in the manufacture of his bottom metal. Duane, of course knows far more about that than I ever could, even in my wildest fantasies. I have to assume the bottom metal produced by the two of them meets Duane's standards or he would not allow his name to be associated with it. His reputation is such that I would never believe otherwise. Though many people worked for Ackley (including the father of one of my close hunting friends when Ackley had his shop here in Roseburg, and who made barrels for Ackley) none left the shop without being assured to the buyer of a quality Mr. Ackley would be willing to stand behind. At the same time, I don't think Mr.Ackley ever tried to con people into thinking that he performed every step in the making of every one of those barrels. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Mike that is basically waht I remember being told years ago. But then again I have slept since then. That a Ackley INC barrel was no different than any other custom barrel. Anyone could have installed it. My understanding that outside shops could puchase them. Again that is just the story I was told. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing P.O. Ackley vs. P.O. Ackley, Inc
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