The thread "Caliber for Mauser Sporter" got me to wondering. How do the usual medium-length, moderate recoil cartridges rank for accuracy? I'm talking about the 7x57 family (6mm Rem, 257 Robts, 6.5x57, 7x57) the 308 family (243 Win, 260 Rem, 7-08 Rem) and of course the 6.5x55 Swede. I am leaving out the 308 Win because I don't consider it moderate recoil. You can include it if you prefer. Truth be known, I'm considering building a 257 Roberts for my grandson and want to know how it stacks up. List them 1 thru 8 with 1 being most accurate. Thanks for playing and feel free to relate examples of particularly accurate rifles you have firsthand knowledge of.

I think the accuracy would depend more on the quality of the chamber and barrel of the rifle and less on the caliber/cartridge.

Of course, but assuming equal quality guns and ammo, are any inherently more accurate?

you're gonna get a lot of discussion around "inherently".

I've found with the few factory 243 and 308's I own it's hard to get them to shoot bad. Even the clip fed savage 99 in 308 is a 1" rifle.

Most will argue that the short fat case will win. So like Rich said the 308 based case like the 260 or 243.

However if you are using a Mauser action the 7x57 based or 6.5x55 cases are easier to feed since the action was designed with them in mind.

All that said I would go with your 257R and never look back. I for one prefer the 7x57 based over the 308. This is a hunting rifle not a 1000yd target.

Both my boys are hunting with 6.5x55's this year. Both on Mauser actions. My oldest shot a 3 shot group at 100 yds last Saturday with all three touching.

I like it for kids because it has the widest range of bullets weights (from 85 gr to 160) with the possible exception of the 7mm whose spread I believe ranges from 100 to 175 gr.

The 6.5x55 is in a way a short fat cartridge with more of a shoulder angle than some of its contemporaries.

Seems like I've had a much easier time on the whole getting a 6.5x55 to shoot cosistently well than any of the others mentioned.

The 6mm Rem has always been a good performer too.

Forget about trying to get an answer on that question; it depends....all of them are accurate enough.
If you are worried about recoil, ,you can do the math for each cartridge and rifle weight. Stock must fit well too.
I have a 257 Roberts that, when you shoot 120 grainers at max velocity (way above book stuff), it kicks like a 270. Do the math and you will be able to make a decision on facts instead of supposition.
BTW, I have had a harder time getting 6.5 Swedes to shoot really well with lighter bullets due to the long throat.

6.5x55 was my deer cartridge for 25 years and always performed well.Inherently accurate but today there 's a problem as there are two dimensions .The original had a larger rim. The American made now has the 308 size rim. So pick either the 6.5x55SE and a gun to match or the American with chamber to match.
The similar 7mm-08 is accurate and performs well.
Toss a coin !

The 257R, 260, 7/08, 7 x 57 and 7 x 57Rimmed are all great, easy to shoot and load for. Mine are on an 09 Argie, Rem 7, Howa 1500, Ruger 1 and Bradshaw. I like them all.
IF you are not going to roll your own, I believe you will find the most factory loads for the 7/08(although most will be 140g bullets)
If you reload, then all are easy to load up or down.
If you are using a Mauser action, the 257 or 7 x 57 would be the natural choices. Other actions, take your pick.
If this is truly going to be a rifle for him to grow up with AND you reload, the 7 x 57 or 7/08 will allow you to load heavier bullets for bigger game.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
BTW, I have had a harder time getting 6.5 Swedes to shoot really well with lighter bullets due to the long throat.

That three shot group I mentioned was shot with 100 gr Nosler BT's traveling at 2700 fps. Roughly 250 Savage equivilent.

If you are after primarily deer, pick any of those cartridges, they will all get the job done.

I can't think of one animal you'd hunt with a 7mm-08 that you couldn't hunt with a 6.5x55?

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
The 257R, 260, 7/08, 7 x 57 and 7 x 57Rimmed are all great, easy to shoot and load for. Mine are on an 09 Argie, Rem 7, Howa 1500, Ruger 1 and Bradshaw. I like them all.
IF you are not going to roll your own, I believe you will find the most factory loads for the 7/08(although most will be 140g bullets)
If you reload, then all are easy to load up or down.
If you are using a Mauser action, the 257 or 7 x 57 would be the natural choices. Other actions, take your pick.
If this is truly going to be a rifle for him to grow up with AND you reload, the 7 x 57 or 7/08 will allow you to load heavier bullets for bigger game.

Thanks, TK. I am leaning toward the 257 Roberts because the rifle is a Mauser and the current barrel is chambered 244 Rem. Those cartridges feed flawlessly. Considering having Jim Dubell rebore it to 25 caliber and avoid barrel channel issues with the stock. I also considered the 6.5 x 57 but afraid ammo availability might become an issue after I am gone.

Thanks, TK. I am leaning toward the 257 Roberts because the rifle is a Mauser and the current barrel is chambered 244 Rem. Those cartridges feed flawlessly. Considering having Jim Dubell rebore it to 25 caliber and avoid barrel channel issues with the stock. I also considered the 6.5 x 57 but afraid ammo availability might become an issue after I am gone.[/QUOTE]


I think your logic is impeccable, and a very good decision if you follow your own logic.

I must be missing something; if you already have a 244 barrel, why change it? I agree on not going with the 6.5x55. And if it is you just want to change, can't go wrong with the 257; I have two of them.

I believe that any of the afore mentioned cartridges will make you happy in a hunting rifle. However, after spending a decade or so on the target range with .308 chambered rifles I believe you'll find it challenging to make that cartridge shoot inaccurately.

308s do not have enough "class" for a traditional Mauser sporter and the more tapered cartridges feed better anyway; the action was designed for them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I must be missing something; if you already have a 244 barrel, why change it? I agree on not going with the 6.5x55. And if it is you just want to change, can't go wrong with the 257; I have two of them.

I bought the rifle because it was a 1910 Mexican action and rather nicely stocked. The fact that it sported an Apex barrel in 244 Rem was not a plus for me. I can't seat a 100 gr. bullet far enough out to reach the lands, and an 85 gr. Partition is the heaviest bullet that groups even moderately well. So, a different chambering was planned from the very beginning. 257 Robts seems the easiest way to go. I've just never had one or known anybody who did.

except the the 260 Remington, own a rifle(rifles) in other cartridges you've asked about.

LOL, difficult for me to rate the cartridges for accuracy. Quality of my rifles varies too much.

Will say, I enjoy shooting them all from benchrest at range, due to what I think is a mild recoil.

If I had to pick just one, it'd be the 257 Roberts. 2nd place would be the 7x57.

Yes; first; 257; second 7mm but if you are really concerned about recoil, go with the 257. Realize though, that load data is often on the light side for deeply seated bullets; a relic of the first rifles that came out with short mags. With a Mauser ( I have a long action Ruger and a m70), you can seat the bullets out farther and get a lot more velocity.

If you read AC's thread on the Medium Bore forum, where he states the most important factor in accuracy is the shooter. I totally agree with that, therefore I believe that recoil itself is more detrimental to potential accuracy than all other factors involved with shooting a rifle. MHO, the less recoil, the more accurately your kids will learn to shoot. That's why I started my kids out on a .243 Winchester.

Furthermore, recoil doesn't necessarily have to be punishing or sharp. Noise, muzzle blast and movement will cause a person to anticipate recoil. Minimizing these factors will develop good shooting habits, which will in turn allow the shooter to utilize the full accuracy potential of the rifle.

A light recoiling gun that shoots 3" groups is a much better hunting tool than a heavy hitter that shoots 5 shots in one hole. Especially if you're introducing youngsters to shooting and hunting.

A 257R on a Mex would be sweet. Get the twist correct and you can shoot 115g or 120g bullets w/ no problem.
Lucky kid. Good for you.

Why can you not reach the lands with a 100 grain bullet?
The magazine is more than long enough to easily permit this.
I would not discard a 244 barrel just because of some goofy prejudice in the print media that began in 1955.

quote:

Originally posted by Glen71:
The fact that it sported an Apex barrel in 244 Rem was not a plus for me. I can't seat a 100 gr. bullet far enough out to reach the lands, and an 85 gr. Partition is the heaviest bullet that groups even moderately well. .

What is the point of seating a 100 gr bullet out to the lands if nothing heavier than 85 will stabilize in his rifle?

Research will tell you that early 244 Rems had barrels that the twist was too slow to stabilize 100g bullets. And, just b/c a long seated round will fit in the magazine does not mean the bullet will reach the lands. It all depends how long the throat is. If it was cut deep or even severely worn, you may not get a 105g or even a long monomatal to touch the lands.

The throat is worn. The seller advised me of that before I bought it. Again, I never intended to leave it a 6mm. Give that idea up. Sheesh.

Since the barrel is an Apex it does not necessarily have a slow twist.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
Research will tell you that early 244 Rems had barrels that the twist was too slow to stabilize 100g bullets. And, just b/c a long seated round will fit in the magazine does not mean the bullet will reach the lands. It all depends how long the throat is. If it was cut deep or even severely worn, you may not get a 105g or even a long monomatal to touch the lands.

FWIW, I have a stock CZ 6.5x55 with a Mannlicher stock. Should be horribly inaccurate, right? But it's the most inherently accurate factory rifle I own. Even any cheap factory ammo shoots under an inch, with iron sights.

A very sharp, successful benchrest gunsmith I know, who knew many folks in the mfr's community, suggested staying with calibers that benchrest shooters use, because tooling for barrels and components for those calibers tend to be changed out more frequently. I.e. 6mm/.243, 6.5mm, .308, and even .458.

Still, I think the .257 Roberts will be accurate. 6.5x55 or .260 "might" have a theoretical chance of being more so.

HTH,
Steve

Listen to Rubline. I built a rifle for a young Grandson about 20yrs ago. I did not want recoil to bother him. I built it in 6BR, but I also put a muzzle brake on it. You know every little thing helps. Well he flinched every time he shot it. Took the brake off and he had no more flinch problems. I'm not a big brake fan. If I think it should need a brake, I just down size the cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Since the barrel is an Apex it does not necessarily have a slow twist.

The twist rate of the Apex barrel has been measured to be approx. 1 in 10". In theory it should stabilize 100 gr. bullets. In practice it does not. Moot point as I do not want a 6mm bore for this rifle.