quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
If you appreciate my posts, and want to learn more, and want to support my research, please consider buying a copy of my booklet titled

Mauser Heat Treat in Brief



I'll be taking orders for a couple/few weeks before I get the first batch printed up.

Hey I want a couple. PM me when they are ready.

Breaking off M700 bolt handles?

First the gents are using too much of the wrong powder, especially if brass is flowing.

Second, M700 bolts are silver soldered or brazed on. Not a really strong connection compared to a M98 forged bolt with integral handle.

I just bought 3 books.
The only time I have seen Model 700 bolt handles break off is when idiots mistake pistol powder for rifle powder. The 3 rings of steel thing does really work. One guy ruined two rifles at the same session. He didn't even know what happened; just that he couldn't open the bolts and broke one off with a hammer. Brass was completely melted in both rifles. Idiot.

I purchased 4 rifles from a gun store that had something to do with surplus rifles. They had Mausers for sale for $25.00 each. I purchased 4 of them with a warning. They said the rifles were suspect. It was obvious the stocks could be used as cores if molded, the barrels were chambered to 30/06, nothing Infront of the rifling had any use. The bolt faces had been pitted with hot high pressure metal cutting gas. The receivers had the appearance of a trade dollar with chop marks.

I decide I had to test fire the receivers, I used one barrel and one bolt to test fire three of them. I found the receivers started out as 7mm57s and then went to 30/06 with a barrel change. I believe the barrels used in the conversion were M1917 barrels, so the receivers had gone through 2 barrels. The barrel I used was a Belgium 30/06 barrel that had been chambered to an improved wildcat with an artifact of the original 30/06 chamber meaning the wildcat chamber did not clean up the chamber.

I found, after getting the first rifle put to gather the neck was short, it was .217" long from the shoulder/neck juncture to the end of the neck and when fire forming the case got shorter when the case body and shoulder formed. I changed to 280 Remington cases, the 280 Remington case had a case body that is .041" longer than the 30/06 case from the datum to the case head and .051" longer from the end of the neck to the case head.

Suspect? I used what claimed to be some risky loads. A smith from Arizona called Seaweed stayed with me but he thought the maximum 4895 H for 150 grain bullets was too much for the 200-grain bullet I was going to use for fire forming. I did not agree but out of respect for the only kind and polite smith on the forum I called Hodgdon.

Hodgdon said the load I choose would be at or above the maximum load for the 200-grain bullet after fire forming.

The length of the chamber was the same for all three rifles with one bolt and one barrel. And then I went to look for trigger guard plates, nothing. I contacted Hooser Gun Parts to order parts for the trigger guard; About the time I had forgot about the plates, Hoosier Parts contacted me to let me know they found 2 of them. I was and am still impressed with them.

The surplus arms store in Ft. Worth helped me with the bolts, the Belgium 30/06 barrel was chambered to something that was close to a 30 Gibbs.

F. Guffey

I took 2 bolts to Jeff Lee; both had the lugs sheared off. Both bolts looked magnificent, clean and shiny. Mr. Lee said both bolts were Santa Fee bolts. So, I cut the handles off and welded
the handles onto bolts that could use some shine and polish.

F. Guffey

This is one of my test actions, a 1939 243 K98k that was damaged at some point in its life. The bolt stop lug was partially broken and the rear bridge cracked. The owner who gave it to me said it was badly damaged in shipment. The mechanical aspects of the action were in excellent condition, with minimal wear, and no lug setback.

We used it for a series of tests to calibrate and learn our Pressure Trace system. We used factory loaded ammo, Greek, Turk, PPU, as well as several loads to run up pressures. Our system tops out at 87426 psi and we are working with Jim to change the system settings to allow for higher readings.

The last load of the day was 30.2gr of Bullseye with a Quick Load estimated 111,000 psi. The Pressure Trace system read 87426. Through the course of the loads, the head space increased. It wasn't until the final load that the lug abutments were upset. There is no damage that I can find to the bolt other than the "standoff" breaking.

The lug abutments now exhibit .008" setback. The barrel also stretched, I will have to post those numbers later.











My initial take away from this experiment is that a good condition Mauser will handle just about anything that Brass will. I may build a sooper magnum, or maybe one of the hot rod rounds, that uses a small rifle primer. I have already found that pressure signs in brass, have more to do with the brass than the pressure. It may be fun to run a series of moderately high pressure rounds through different types of brass and see how they react.

There are several iterations of this experiment that I will be running as I have time and funds. I have several actions that I have heat treated to different hardness's to see how they react to over pressure rounds. I also will be running a dead soft action and creeping up the pressure to see when it starts to exhibit setback.

I may do different iterations as well to see how much excessive headspace varies the reactions.

In reality, this is all anecdotal. And Slamfire is welcome to poke holes in it. I would counter that if he wants to bankroll running a dozen actions, I am game. If he wants to bankroll running my solid models through FEA we can do that. He asked for crystallography, and if he wants to pay for it, I can provide it.

Otherwise, I can only provide primary sources and empirical evidence.

Fal, those pics bring back fond memories of an interesting and FUN time for me. Glad to see you being a little more deliberate than I was.