28 September 2006, 23:09
ErikDnitrocarburized surfaces???
As seen on this thread:
Blaser Engineering Question, the subject of nitrocarburized surfaces on Blaser barrels came up. As far as I've seen the barrels on the Mauser M03 and some Sauer 202 barrels are also available with a nitrocarburized surface.
Having previously owned a Blaser R93, I found back then that the nitrocarburized surface was more rust and scratch resistant than any other bluing or protective coating I've seen.
Although it has been mentioned to me that a coating of Ti-Aln is supposed to be tougher than other coatings available. Or is Ti-Aln (titianium aluminum nitrate?) just a fancy word for nitrocarburizing?
My question then is; why don't more gun manufacturers use this technology? Is it too expensive (I doubt this would be a problem for high end custom makers?), or are there downsides I am not aware of that keep other manufacturers from using nitrocarburizing?
29 September 2006, 02:28
jørgenErik
Like on everythings else, there is both pros an cons on the nitrocarburating.
The pros is a very rust and scratch resistan surface. It is a pretty simple and costeficiant proces, ether performed in a saltbathe, folowed by an oxidation Often called QPQ, Or performed in a hardening furnace, filled with a mixture of amonium and carbide in partly plasmaform, folloved by oxydation.
The cons are
On som materials with build in stress, there might ocure dimentional changes. If there is complexe shapes and shockwawes in the material, ther might be an increased tendence to surface cracking, folloved by metal fatique(Dont use it on thinn fluted barels)
Often there might be problems getting an uniform color on a polished surface(thats why they al use bedblasted surface)
The cost for nitrocarburating is apx 5$ pr kg, with a minimum charge of 140$
The TiAlN treatment is another treatment, witch is far more expensive, mutch harder but less rustresistence. Also it isnt capable of treating the barel inside, deeper than 1.5x diameter of the hole
29 September 2006, 02:53
malmquote:
Originally posted by jørgen:
The TiAlN treatment is another treatment, witch is far more expensive, mutch harder but less rustresistence. Also it isnt capable of treating the barel inside, deeper than 1.5x diameter of the hole
Of course there is the RAg aND oIl treatment which is cheap and very effective against rust.
29 September 2006, 05:56
butchlambertMalm, don't get every body doing a search at the same time.
Butch
29 September 2006, 09:44
jørgenquote:
Originally posted by malm:
quote:
Originally posted by jørgen:
The TiAlN treatment is another treatment, witch is far more expensive, mutch harder but less rustresistence. Also it isnt capable of treating the barel inside, deeper than 1.5x diameter of the hole
Of course there is the RAg aND oIl treatment which is cheap and very effective against rust.
Yes Malm
It has ben working fo decades(you raggy bastard
)
But it havent stopped you yanks from spoiling alot of rifles by putting those "weak, soft, brittle in cold weather and short lived" socalles SS barrels on. Just because you have had a fantasy about how to save that awfull and extreme expencive RAg aND oiltreatment. Especialy in these days og skyrocketing oilprices
29 September 2006, 11:25
lawndartErik,
I won't get to it for a year or so, but remind me when I start posting pictures of rifles that I have built to send one in for that treatment.
Then we will know for sure the cost, and how well it works.
LD
29 September 2006, 14:11
ErikDquote:
Originally posted by jørgen:
Erik
Like on everythings else, there is both pros an cons on the nitrocarburating.
The pros is a very rust and scratch resistan surface. It is a pretty simple and costeficiant proces, ether performed in a saltbathe, folowed by an oxidation Often called QPQ, Or performed in a hardening furnace, filled with a mixture of amonium and carbide in partly plasmaform, folloved by oxydation.
The cons are
On som materials with build in stress, there might ocure dimentional changes. If there is complexe shapes and shockwawes in the material, ther might be an increased tendence to surface cracking, folloved by metal fatique(Dont use it on thinn fluted barels)
Often there might be problems getting an uniform color on a polished surface(thats why they al use bedblasted surface)
The cost for nitrocarburating is apx 5$ pr kg, with a minimum charge of 140$
The TiAlN treatment is another treatment, witch is far more expensive, mutch harder but less rustresistence. Also it isnt capable of treating the barel inside, deeper than 1.5x diameter of the hole
"(Dont use it on thinn fluted barels)"
Jørgen, How then does Blaser use it on their thin, fluted "Attache" barrels? Do they just calculate in that a certain number of barrels that get the negative affect you mention will end up getting thrown away after the procedure? And let the "good ones" pass?
"Also it isnt capable of treating the barel inside, deeper than 1.5x diameter of the hole"
Does this mean that unlike the Ti-Aln procedure, nitrocarburizing covers the whole inside of the barrel, making it tough/hard too? I recall that my Blaser barrel in 375H&H was unusually accurate, but fouled very quickly after only a few shots. Could this be a side affect from the nitrocarburizing inside the barrel?
29 September 2006, 14:15
ErikDquote:
Originally posted by lawndart:
Erik,
I won't get to it for a year or so, but remind me when I start posting pictures of rifles that I have built to send one in for that treatment.
Then we will know for sure the cost, and how well it works.
LD
LD,
I'll try and remember!
But as I've already forgotten what I had for breakfast an hour ago, I'm not sure I actually will! Will what? Wait a second, what was the question?
