Does anyone have any thoughts or information on how these "new" Vanguards stack up in the shooting field.

According to Weatherby they will better .99" 3 shots with Slected factory ammo and probably even shoot under .75".

They seem to have a composite pillar bedded stock rather than the usual Vanguard injection moulded one. Claibres offered range upto .338 and include most of the popular .300's

They look pretty good on paper, any thoughts or useful comments would be appreciated

I tested a regular, production-grade Vanguard 257 Weathery Mag. with Weatherby factory ammo, and it comfortable produced sub-MOA five-shot groups at 100 yds. right out of the box. Some of the groups were close to 1/2 MOA.

I figure if a plain-vanilla Vanguard will shoot that well, the odds of a specially-selected Vanguard "Sub-MOA" shooting well should be even better..........

AD

The one I have for sale in the classifieds section is a .5 inch gun.

it's a new variety of the poker game....they test all rifles and the ones that shoot under MOA are put in the premium pile......any of the others could have been there too.....but it just didn't happen this time.

Frankly, I wouldn't pay a dime more for the distinction.....any of the others will do the same.

Take a few classes in statistics and ask yourself.....what's the probability that a gun that just shot a 3/4" group is more accurate than a gun that has just fired a 1.25" group?

Knowing more than this I'd say.....why waste the money.

I do however believe the Howa guns (Vanguard) are excellent guns and would own one if I wanted another Weatherby cartridge. But I don't!

The test target from my regular Howaby Vanguard shows it just missed beiing a Sub-Moa.

Good enough for me.

ZM

Based on the Vanguard and 2 Howas I've played with there is no way I would pay extra for a Sub MOA.

I guess I will be the dissenter here. I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .270 WSM, and the test target shows a 1 1/2 inch group. That would be fine, except the gun does not shoot like that.

Here's the scoop - Howa tests the barreled action in a fixture, not in the stock. They let the barrel cool completely - shoot one shot, go down the line of fixtures and shoot several others, then repeat. They then ship the barreled actions to Weatherby with the fixture-fired test target, who stocks them in the injection molded or wood stocks. Now, Weatherby is pulling most (all?) of the best shooters and puting them into a better, pillar-bedded Bell and Carlson stock and selling them as sub-MOA. Since they are doing that, your chances of getting a great "non-sub-MOA" Vanguard are actually less than before. Again, they are pulling out the best shooters for the higher-priced sub-MOA version.

As for my Vanguard - it went back to the Weatherby repair shop, and they got a 1 1/4-inch group...at 25 yards! They played with it, shaved some material out of the barrel channel and got a 3/8-inch group, again at 25 yards. That works out to 1 1/2-inches at 100 yards, so they called it good.

I will end up replacing the stock and having it bedded - by the time I am done, I will have spent as much as I would have just to buy the sub-MOA Vanguard in the first place!

Anyone want to buy a Vanguard in .270 WSM?

I got a Vanguard 3 years ago in 300wby.

By the way, $388 from Walmart.

Junked the stock and restocked with a wood one.

finished the stock and glass bedded it.

Always around 1" groups.

Pay $800+ for a sub MOA?

That's a waste!!

I invested about another $175 for the stock and had fun building it.

I bought Weatherby Vanguard in .300 WSM from "Wally World" for $396 out the door and it had a target that showed a 3/4" group. Well, nothing I've shot in it has been better than 1 1/2" even after I relieved the barrel channel. Not bad for under $400 but not good enough. The trigger was absolutely atrocious and I finally bought a Timney replacement for it. I already have a laminated wood stock for it. So now I have $550 in it. Should have bought a Winchester 70 Classic.

I do not think you will have to pay $800 for a Sub-MOA Vanguard, just like you do not pay the suggested retail for any other rifle if you are smart and shop around. After all, the suggested retail for the regular Vanguard is $499, and no one I know pays that much!

Say $400, add another $150 for a Bell and Carlson stock (or more for a MacMillan or HS Precision), add another few bucks for bedding and trigger work and there you are, with no guarantees - right at $700, which is realistically what you will probably pay for a Sub-MOA, which is what you are trying to duplicate.

Besides, as I said, now that they are pulling out the better-shooting Vanguards, your chances of getting a "great" non-sub-moa Vanguard are slimmer than before Weaterhby started this program.

My Weatherby Vanguard 30-06 is a super accurate rifle. Bought it at Walmart on Clearance for $250.00.... Out of the box it would shoot <3/4" groups at 100 yards with Rem and Win 165 hunting ammo. I would recommend them to anyone who wants a quality hunting rifle. I will definately buy another one.

I got a good price on a barrel blank, and did some trading with a Smith friend of mine... now, it is *very* accurate -- easily able to do 1/2" at 100 yards.

Another friend made up a switch-barrel Howa 1500 with 22-250, 308, and 243 Howa take off barrels, and it shoots well under an inch with all of them. He said their tolerances were so close that they didn't need any head space modifications when he changed to other Howa Factory barrels.

Best regards

John

Thanks for the info guys.

Here in the U.K the new price for the bog standard Vanguard is around the £450 mark ($800 U.S) no real deals to be had new as this is the imported price here with all sales taxes etc added, the matt blue Sub-moa with Bell and Carlson stock is around £730 ($1,300 U.S) again no deals on this price and a 3-6 month wait for delivery.

I have owned rifles before which came with an .5 moa accuracy guarantee that could only be replicalted whilst standing on one leg in a force 9 gale and at a 45 degree angle !! otherwise the rifle would shoot no better than 1 - 1.5 inche good enough but not when you have paid for a so called .5 moa gun.

I buy the Vanguards, remove the barrel, true up the action and fit a stainless custom lothar walther barrel.(which gives the customer a far wider choice on caliber) TiAIN coat the action, bead blast the barrel,adjust the trigger, devcon bedding job, with a bell & carlson stock i sell them for 1000 pounds slightly more with a McMillan stock, and they all shoot sub 1/2 moa.
They are a good alternative to remington and winchester and make for a realy good shooting, practical and very reasonably priced semi custom rifle.
Out of the box i've found some calibers tend to shoot realy well ( 308, 300wm seem to do well all the time) and others to be not so good. I've stopped wasting ammo and just pull the barrels these days, they make (along with the remington barrels) good tomoato stakes in the green house.
Pete

I bought a Deluxe model at the Wally world closeout last year for $289. Test target was about 1.5", relieved the barrel channel and it went just under 1.25", adjusted the trigger (you do know it's fully adjustable don't you) and it settled right at 1". That was factory loads, I'm working up some 165 gr. loads now and expect it to get a little better. But it's good enough as is.