Several Groups Express Interest in Winchester Site

New Haven, Connecticut ? Several groups have submitted proposals to acquire the assets of the Winchester Firearms operation and restart production of the famed rifles in the city.

Fifteen pre-qualified groups were permitted access to the facility and its financials before the June 23 deadline to submit proposals. Several of the groups met the deadline for proposals.

Mayor John DeStefano, Jr. said he remains optimistic about the process. The City of New Haven and U.S. Repeating Arms Co. agreed on a ?stand still? agreement, which allowed the City and a third party consultant a time frame during which to seek a new buyer for the plant. U.S. Repeating Arms also agreed to pay the City approximately $850,000 pursuant to a tax abatement recouping real estate and personal property taxes..

?We made the unusual decision to aggressively fight to keep jobs in the city,? the Mayor said. ?The process allowed us to market not only this historic site, but also the entire economy of New Haven. We can now only wait for the negotiations ? which will involve the interested investors; the Belgian based Herstal Group, which owns the property; Olin Corporation, city officials and state economic development specialists ? to run their course.?

?We are pleased that so many qualified investors demonstrated real enthusiasm for the continuation of the production of Winchester firearms,? said Kevin Tierney owner of Workout Solutions, Inc. of Guilford, the consultant hired to:

1. Maintain the production of Winchester firearms in New Haven which has continued since 1865

2. Facilitate negotiations with Olin Corporation in St. Louis, MO, the owners of the Winchester name for a new license

3. Satisfy the financial needs of Herstal Corporation regarding the purchase of the assets of US. Repeating Arms Company.

Tierney continued by saying, ?But the real challenge begins now, as we enter a particularly sensitive period in the above process. The smallest complications can threaten a sale within the above parameters, so we cannot provide details about the nature of the proposals and we will not speculate about the future of the property and the rescue of Winchester Firearms.?

In coming weeks, the consultants will work with the most promising groups to finalize financial terms and negotiate a new licensing agreement with Olin Corporation for continued use of the Winchester brand. An announcement on the results of these efforts is likely during the next six weeks.

For 140 years, the Winchester site has been a landmark of manufacturing innovation. The company was a leader in the manufacture of high-quality repeating rifles. Its first models, the 1866 and the 1873, were commonly referred to as the ?Gun that Won the West.?

The spirit of innovation has permeated New Haven?s history. Eli Whitney, a Yale graduate, first developed the cotton gin to simplify the process for cleaning raw cotton. He went on to establish a musket factory that used interchangeable parts in the manufacture of firearms. The same spirit of innovation remains evident in New Haven today ? with the growth of life science companies and other businesses at the leading edge of science, technology and industry

I don't know, maybe I am all wet on this, but I think that it would be best to move the whole thing to one of the more business friendly western states. I just read that Ruger is now moving production of some of their single action revolvers to Prescott AZ.
Maybe I am not understanding something here, but is the $850K USRA is paying for taxes that the city is, or is going to be, losing because of the closing? If so, why doesn't every business that ever closes pay taxes for "what could have been"?
Like I say, I may have this all wrong, but that seems really strange to me.
One last point and then I will shut up....don't you think it is a little late for the city to be doing all this? Maybe when USRA found out they were struggling the city should have done something BEFORE the plant closed.

If I was a betting man (and I'm not) I'd say the following have the odds

1. The M-70 will be available again within a year
2. It'll be produced some where around Cody Wyoming

3. Key employees will be offered relocaction contracts

4. Olin will back down enormously on the requirements including required volumes of firearms to be produced.

c'mon guys.....what's your predictions?

I'd say Stugis South Dakota before Cody Wyoming, but only on a long shot becasue New Haven wants to keep the jobs there in New Haven.

I too would say Sturgis. They seem to be really trying to get firearms companies in that area.

You would have true gun type of people working there too and not just joe lunchpails looking for a check - thus quality would improve IMO.

All these people looking at the Win factory - whats to say they aren't gonna buy it just for the building and start making pizza ovens or some such thing?

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
I don't know, maybe I am all wet on this, but I think that it would be best to move the whole thing to one of the more business friendly western states. I just read that Ruger is now moving production of some of their single action revolvers to Prescott AZ.
Maybe I am not understanding something here, but is the $850K USRA is paying for taxes that the city is, or is going to be, losing because of the closing? If so, why doesn't every business that ever closes pay taxes for "what could have been"?
Like I say, I may have this all wrong, but that seems really strange to me.
One last point and then I will shut up....don't you think it is a little late for the city to be doing all this? Maybe when USRA found out they were struggling the city should have done something BEFORE the plant closed.

The city and State gave USRA big tax incentives based on keeping the plant operating in New Haven. Since USRA closed the plant they had to pay some of this money back.

My prediction ---- this is all B.S. and the New Haven plant dies the death it should. In 2010, there are some "new" winchester 94's and 70's from Japan in limited runs just like the Davidson's Limited Editions today.
No group would agree to all the nonsense that the city and the union want.

The USRA license from Winchester expires after 2007. After that Winchester can negotiate with anyone they want with no restrictions, so nothing will happen until after January 1, 2008,
when Winchester will announce a new licensing agreement with another gunmaker.

The City of New Haven and the State of Connecticut will scream about it and threaten to sue but they're deluding themselves right now.

Why the fuck would Cody even be mentioned in this? Because they have a museum? Where would you even house an operation like this in cody? You'd have to relocate all your employees,since the average age in cody is 50 plus year olds with limited skills in this field.

I doubt the M70 is coming back anytime soon. Nobody was buying them in the first place.Or they wouldn't have went under,for a second time.

You know at last year's Gunmaker Guild show in Reno there were several Winchester employees wandering around. I guess Winchester brought them out to look for work. When I asked one of these people if he was will to relocate, he said no, he wanted me to move his way. The company may move, but a lot of those former employees ane staying on the east coast.

Thanks for the clairfication Frank!

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
The USRA license from Winchester expires after 2007. After that Winchester can negotiate with anyone they want with no restrictions, so nothing will happen until after January 1, 2008,
when Winchester will announce a new licensing agreement with another gunmaker.

While this may be completely true even signed contracts can be renegotiated.....

The only wrinkle here is that someone will have to buy out the balance of Herstel's contract to do anything sooner than that.

Since they're not using it now it seems as though the value is very low.....and easily negotiable.

Two Things...
The Mayor is Running for the top slot in the State.
Unions make it expensive to manufacture in Ct.

I suspect we may see the line produced in Belgium. Isn't that where the "mother" company is located?

quote:

I suspect we may see the line produced in Belgium. Isn't that where the "mother" company is located?

Well not exactly.....It's not that simple.

quote:

the Belgian based Herstal Group, which owns the property;

Olin Corporation in St. Louis, MO, the owners of the Winchester name

The Belgain company owns the facility....Olin owns the trademark of Winchester.....

I'll let you judge which is more valuable.....especially that it's been said that the rifling forging equipment has been removed from the facilities some time ago....

Right now it seems that anyone that wants to buy Winchester must strike a deal with both Herstel and Olin.

It appears as though the local government taxes has been paid off.

McDonalds works the same way...the local restraunt is owned by (usually) someone local but the name is (franchised) by the McDonald's corporation

I am somewhat burned over the Winchester situation. They have been falling apart for forty years now and the last M70 I got is close to landfill in value.

Long ago they proved money can be made if even the old John Browning designs are made by the japs of all people.

Since that last Winchester purchase in 2002 I have bought five new Kimbers. Kimbers are similar to the M70 and even better as to what I like.

To be frank I don't need 'Winchester' anymore.

To try and answer your question I think that the Winchester name still has value and that someone will make M70's again. Someone will even buy jap M70's. Heck there is or was a Chicom M70 but Clinton nixed it.

In summary it seems as if I am not going to buy a Winchester no matter if they make them again or not.

On the other hand I liked this.



It's Now Or Never: Junichiro Koizumi, a lifelong Elvis fan, shows off his moves at Graceland.

I got the impression that Rolls Royce was split in 3:
designs
facilities
name ownership

In the end the name was worth the most and bought the others out.


Olin starts sending me $200/month in 2013.

I hope Olin can make enough off the Winchester name to fulfill it's obligations.

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:
Why the fuck would Cody even be mentioned in this? Because they have a museum? Where would you even house an operation like this in cody? You'd have to relocate all your employees,since the average age in cody is 50 plus year olds with limited skills in this field.

I doubt the M70 is coming back anytime soon. Nobody was buying them in the first place.Or they wouldn't have went under,for a second time.

Because Wyoming is a right to work state. The real reason Winchester went TU was to rid themselves of the Union. Key employees will be offer their job in Wyoming less a union contract. That's my guess.

This is a sad comentary but in the last few years the only thing I'm interested in Winchester for is primers, and they're on the loose side. Will anyone really miss them?roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
This is a sad comentary but in the last few years the only thing I'm interested in Winchester for is primers, and they're on the loose side. Will anyone really miss them?roger

Good news Roger.....Winchester ammo and components are totally separated from the guns business.....your primers will still be available.....

I live in wyoming and winchester won't be opening up in wyoming. Right to work doesn't mean shit. There's plenty of unions in wyoming.

The winchester M70 and 94 went tits up,because nobody was buying them. Not because of the union.

Wyoming has had a chance to have weatherby and daisy air rifle. Daisy had a finishing facility in northeast wyoming and couldn't get any backing by the state,so they left. Weatherby looked all over the state and kept getting the run around, finally said piss on it and went elsewhere.

quote:

. Weatherby looked all over the state and kept getting the run around, finally said piss on it and went elsewhere.

from what i hear they are in brainerd,mn doing final testing and such.

I don't blame weatherby,they went out of their way to relocate to wyoming and couldn't get any backing from the state or counties. Unless it has to do with oil or gas and making some private property owner rich,nobody wants it.

They can't get enough man power to work the coal,gas and oil industry here,for wages in the 60 grand range,let alone for winchester making probably in the low 30 grand range,if that.

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:
I live in wyoming and winchester won't be opening up in wyoming. Right to work doesn't mean shit. There's plenty of unions in wyoming.

I used to have a pack of relatives in Wyoming. I loved the country and the outdoors life there. Every time I went back I looked for a job. Lots of work at about 40% of what I made where I lived. It's appearant why they have Unions in Wyoming. I've never belonged to a Union but they happen for a reason. In the world of today 30K is not a living wage in America.

quote:

Originally posted by sledder:


The winchester M70 and 94 went tits up,because nobody was buying them. Not because of the union.

My guess is that is becuase eveyrone already HAS a W94, and all those W70s in short mag did not sell.

I don't even want short mags for the actions.

Unions aren't widespread in wyoming,but you still have major unions present. Right to work gets thrown around,but you still have to be a member of a union,to work many mine jobs,electrical jobs,plumbing etc.

30k is actually a middle class wage in wyoming. Its not uncommon to have one of the better paying jobs in town and still qualify for assistance. Especially in the "service" industry.People stick around for differant reasons. On top of this the majority of wyoming has a median age in the 50's. Not exactly what you want if you're winchester. Combine this with realty prices going out the roof and your work force is gone.

You read the net and suddenly you get the false sense that people were just standing in line to buy a M70. The local gunshop has a great selection of rifles and winchester was their slowest seller,even winchester ammo was a dog in sales. I'm sure this isn't an isolated circumstance.

I would imagine that if you looked into how many people winchester attracted as first time buyers,you'd be lucky to have a figure of 1%. Therefore,as a company you try to attract past customers into buying another M70. You don't do that by offering a standard caliber,you instead offer a new chambering (wsm) and hope it works. It was popular but it wasn't enough. On top of this,I haven't met a reputable smith who liked dealing with the M70's produced in the last 8 years.

And Wyoming is gun friendly.

I would like so much to cut and run from this damn blue WA state and their $100/mile tunnel that will haul no one.

It is one thing for liberals to want your guns, another when their global warming funamentalism tries to "force drivers out of their cars".

The traffic is so bad in Seattle that it hurts my feelings.

A two bedroom 900 sq ft 55 year old house in Seattle is worth $350k.

What an incentive to move.

I hope that Winchester does not spoil Wyoming.

Winchester won't spoil wyoming. All the douche bags from the east and west coast are doing that already. I give it another 5 years or less and the 900 sq ft house for 350K will be here. There isn't anywhere some colorado cocksucker can't be on a three day weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
This is a sad comentary but in the last few years the only thing I'm interested in Winchester for is primers, and they're on the loose side. Will anyone really miss them?roger

The "Winchester" that makes primers is not the same "Winchester" that was making the guns.......

Personally, I prefer Federal primers.......

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
This is a sad comentary but in the last few years the only thing I'm interested in Winchester for is primers, and they're on the loose side. Will anyone really miss them?roger

Good news Roger.....Winchester ammo and components are totally separated from the guns business.....your primers will still be available.....

Are you sure? Have you tried to buy 300 or 375 H&H cases from Winchester lately??? NOT AVAILABLE.