I have been re-finishing the stock on my 100 year old english shotgun with linseed oil. It is coming out really nice and smooth, and the grain looks beautiful, but, when the oil dries the finish looks a bit cloudy. It looks best when the oil is still wet, and the grain really glows. How can I keep it looking "wet"? I tried mixing rottenstone with the oil, but it dosen't seem to make a difference. Any suggestions?

Wolfgar, rottenstone is sometimes used to fill pores but it is not used on regular finish coats. If you want a finish to have a high gloss wet look, I would suggest you remove the linseed oil (it is not much of a finish in this day and age) and use teak oil. Daly's Sea Fin will give a nice high gloss, it is not cloudy and is easy to apply.

Thanks Chic. I was afraid you would say to remove the linseed finish!! How should I do it, do I have to go down to bare wood, or is there an easier way to do it? I do not want to take off any more wood, I have already bitten off more than I can chew!

Remove it with a chemical finish remover. Best to sand as little as possible. The remains of most finish removers can be washed off with water. Then whisker and assess the condition of the wood surface. I would seal the surface mulitple coats of the teak oil until it won't take any more. Then I usually wet sand and build up a "mud coat" to fill pores. Let it dry a week and wet sand with 320 back just to the surface leaving the pores, hopefully, full. Then start wet sanding and wiping the surface almost clean on a daily basis. Start with 320 working up to at least 600, or 800. I usually do two days with each grit. Then start applying very thin coats (a few tips of fingers just dipped into the finish and applied to an area)that are hand rubbed onto he stock. Cover the entire surface in that manner. Repeat daily until you have a good built up surface with a finish you like. You can often mask off he checkering but it may need to have some recutting to remove finish. It is not tough to do and is a lot easier than cutting it in the first place and a good way to start to get the feel of checkering.

I have probably gone over this a bit too quickly and missed some important points. If you have any questions as you continue, don't hesitate to post a question here, pm me or send an email.

Is Tung Oils like Sutherland Welles Ltd Polymerized Tung Oil out now too. I loved the finish I got from that last time.

What else workes good for a custom finish like Wolfgar?

Wolgar: Send boha a PM for info, he has this down to perfection.

Thanks again fellas. Chic, I am way over my head with this, and I'm afraid that the stripping and sanding is above my abilities. Is there any other way to do it, maybe apply the teak oil over the linseed? Is this possible?

Do not apply teak oil! What you need is Alkanet red oil, grain sealer and finishing oil. Chambers guns has a sight that sells all of this. You should actually start with the grain sealer, then add oil and at last the finish. Top it off with wax. They have a packet that contains all you need.

The only thing you need is elbow grease!

The finish will be perfect though.

An easy way out is using True oil -but it´s shit.

Wolfgar, a stripper is very simple to use. This is not rocket science.

If you try to apply any finish over the linseed oil, you will still have the cloudy appearance under the finish coat. In addition, linseed oil never realy dries. Teak oil is a very good stock finish. Alkanet is nothign but a die made from Alkanet root. There are a number of good finishes on the market and they do not begin and end with this guys packet of stuff.

Wolfgar: Listen to Chic. He knows what he is talking about. Something no one has mentioned, but I will, is GB Lin-Speed Oil. I have used it on several stocks now, and I really like it. All of the stocks have been a refinishing job and includes one Ruger Mark II, a CZ 550 American, a CZ 550 Fulll Stock, a CZ 527 Lux and a Winchester Model 70. If you think refinishing a stock can make you feel like you are in over your head, try glass bedding an action, but that is another story, though, like with the refinishing ones, successful. I simply followed the directions as I read them on the little bottles of the stuff I got from http://www.lin-speed.com and the rifles came out looking well with a deep, gloss finish. It is time consuming, but relatively easy. I first had to remove the old finish, which, in the case of the CZs, was not easy. I used several chemical strippers, but the one which seemed to work best for me was Citri-Strip, which you can get out of Wally World, or any hardware store. For the checkering, I worked the Citri-Strip with an old, stiff toothbrush. The trick is, to remove all of the old finish, but then, you can spot any little patches of finish left on the stock pretty easily. They will be the little shiny spots. Just dab some more Citri-Strip ojn it, let the chemical action work and take it off. After that, I made sure the stock was wiped down well and then I put it away to dry completely. After it was totally dry, I washed it down liberly with common, ordinary lighter fluid and then I put it up again, to let it dry completely. What I did was to open the jar of GB Lin-Speed Oil and with my index finger, dabbed it into the oil, then I used my finger to spread a very thin coat of the oil all over the stock, except not on the checkering. I put the stock away in a dry/warm area of my apartment and let it dry for a day. Then, I applied a second very thin coat of the oil in the same manner as the first, except on the checkering, so I had two thin coats on the stock. I then put the stock up to let it dry for a solid 24 hours. If any of the coats feels the slightest bit tacky, it is not dry. After it is totally dry I then took some 0000 steel wool and carefully brought the stock back down to bare wood again. I hear some say not to use steel wool in the finishing process, as it will leave tiny slivers of steel embedded in the wood, but this did not happen with the stocks I worked on. Maybe I just didn't feel them. The process is supposed to put the linspeed oil in the wood, not on it. Anyway, that entire process I just explained is ONE, just a single repitition. In all, I believe I did seven complete repititions (14 applications). Throughout each application of lin-speed oil if I accidently got some oil into the checkering I quickly used the toothbrush to get it out. Just work the finish right up to the edge of the checkering. On the first coat of the seventh repitition I went a bit differently. I did the finger dab and by this time all it took for the complete stock was about two finger dabs. Also at this time, I applied oil to the bare wood under the grip cap area, the bare wood under the repoil pad area, and the action area and well as the barrel channel area to seal the stock. On drying it, I applied the finish right next to my wooden gun cabinet. Before starting the last repition I took the rifles out of the cabinet and emptied it completely, then I used a can of compressed air and blew out any dust that may be in the cabinet, and then I completely wiped the inside down with dust-attracting polish. The idea to to completely eliminate dust from the inside of that cabinet. It became my drying cabinet. Dust specks will ruin a good refinishing job in a heartbeat and this process eliminated those annoying dust specks. When I completed the 13th application (start of the seventh repitition) I put the wet stock as carefully as I could in the gun cabinet, very carefully closed the door so as not to stir up any dust, and then used masking tape to close any possible dust-infiltration leaks around the cabinet door. I just stood the stock on its butt and leaned it against the back corner of the gun cabinet by the tip of the forend. I let it dry for a full 24 hours. For the last application after which there would be no steel wooling, I could cover the entire stock with just one finger dab. This time, however, I dabbed some finish into the checkering and used the old toothbrush to work the finish well into the checkering. I also applied the finish to to the barrel channel, butt, grip cap area and inletted area to completely seal the rifle stock. I made sure everything was smooth and then sealed it up in my improvised sealing chamber, my guncase. This time I let it dry in the case for a solid two days before removing the stock. Then, it was a simple matter of putting the sling swivel studs back in the wood, re-installing the grip cap and buttpad, and putting the barreled action back into the finished stock. The finish is a very deep, gloss finish which really shows the grain patterns and does not cloud up. The finish has been on my CZ 550 American in 7x57mm now for three years and I have encountered no problems. I have used the rifle in snow, rain, sunshine and all weather patterns between with no problems. If you decide to use this process, though, you will have to remove the finish you already applied with a chemical stripper. Sorry to be so damned windy. Tom Purdom

"Linseed oil never dries" -that says it all.

Red root oil is what gives the English guns there rich coloring, sealing the grain is important otherwise the wood is left porous.

Stripping is probably the least of your problems. Carefully sanding it down, avoiding the checkering, is a good way of doing it.

It will, and should, take time.

No dont sand it. That will just remove or scratch the wood, but will most likely just leave a mess of gummed up sand paper.

Use striper and a plastic bondo spreader to scrape off the striper and finish from the stock.
Then wipe it off with a paper towel. A tooth brush for the checkering. No damage to the wood from sand paper. Wipe it down with some mineral spirits after to remove any stiper chemical residue.

Its easy!

CEWE: The stuff I mentioned is called lin-speed, not linseed oil. The company claims it has removed the property which will not allow linseed oil to dry. I think it has because my stocks are dry as a bone, is repairable and easy to apply. Actually, when removing the old finish from my CZ 550 American, I used the chemical agent, the toothbrush and one of those green scotch pads and even an old, no longer needed credit card. I have never used the stuff you refer to, so cannot speak from experience there. We each have our preferences and that GB Lin-Speed Oil is the stuff I like to use. Like I said, I have had my stock out in some pretty bad weather when I was in a lot better shape than I am now and it never gave me any problems and seemed to seal the wood very well. Have a nice day, but only if you want to have one! Tom Purdom

I was going to suggest simply using mineral spirits to take out the oil, since it never dries. But Im guessing that the cloudiness is a result of the old finish that hasnt been fully removed yet.

Listen to Chic! Stripper is what you need to get the old gunk out and get down to bare wood again without altering the dimensions of your stock by oversanding. A bit of wiping down with mineral spirits before applying the stripper may help get some of the oil out first. Its as easy as using paint remover, (same thing). Just keep appling the stripper then scraping it off until all the old finish is gone, then as mentioned, you can clean things up with mineral spirits and elbow grease and perhaps a bit of "light" sanding. Use something like a stiff toothbrush with the stripper on the checkering.

Ive done it before, if I can than anyone can.

Thank you all. I did not expect this much help!! Your advice is all good, but I shouldn't have messed with this in the first place! It's way over my head. I still have the metal on the gun, and I do not have the skill or tools to take it apart. I pretty much lightly sanded the wood, got it real smooth, and started applying the linseed. It looks great...until the oil dries and it gets that cloudy look.
What I would like to do now is to salvage what I have already done, and maybe but some type of finish over whats already there, maybe rottonstone it down a bit.
So where can I go from here to get the shine and leave it at that?
Worst comes to worst, I will leave it as is, until I get a few dollars together to have it professionally done, which is what I should have done in the first place!!!

As said previously there are a lot of ways to do this. I haven´t heard of Lin-speed, sounds OK as long as it doesn´t contain silicone. Not that silicone is bad it´s just that I like a finish that is well built up and that takes time. I tried doing this myself once and it looked like sh-t, this because I was in a "hurry". I now let boha do the finish on my rifles and he does it well -and we have a lot of bad weather! Getting the metal off is important, hard to do it otherwise. Sanding isn´t bad as long as you use the finest paper (sharkskin we call it) and a lot of it as it tends to get gummed up.

Whatever you do take your time and ask plenty of questions as this can be done in many differebt ways. Decide on one and stick to it.

Thanks Cewe,
Can I use teak or tung oil OVER the linseed finish?? If not, I think that I'll eventually have a pro do it.

You can use Tru-Oil over linseed oil. You can mix the last coat with paint thinner to get a smoother coat. Another advantage is that Tru-Oil is 75% effective against moisture intrusion while linseed oil is only 15% effective.

Thump,
I am looking for something that will stay "wet" looking. Will the tru-oil do that? Where do I get it?

True oil will stay wet looking but it can build up very fast giving almost a plasticy look if you use too much. Use very little and spread it well. It can also be buffed back some. Where I am at I can get it at most gun stores and even Wal-Mart. But like Chic said you may find that you still have some cloudiness from the Linseed Oil.

Modern Linseed oil has synthetic dryers mixed in but not boiled in which really do not dry well. Exposure to direct sunlight during the drying process helps but it will still gum up in hot weather and turn cloudy milky white in the rain. It is possible to modify it by adding Lead Carbinate(Japan Dryer), gotten from a paint store, and using a double boiler to gently boil this together. You only need about a teaspoon for a quart of oil. Do this outside well away from your house as this is very flamable and very dangerous. This greatly improves the drying properties but it still requires direct sunlight for best results and still does not protect as well as other finishes. Failure to use a double boiler when boiling linseed oil will definately result in a flame up. The above "recipie" was gotten from conversations with Eric Kettenburg (http://www.firelocks.com) who specializes in making authentic 1700's flintlocks. He uses a sandbath as the double boiler to gradually heat the oil up. If you are not comfortable using a stripper I would skip this idea too.

Dont put True oil over Linseed, they are two totally different types of finish. The true oil would seal the oil inside of the wood and when tempratures change the oil will expand and contract and cause the true oil to seperate from the wood and chip.

If you must do it that way as opposed to removing the existing finish, then you would be better off with lin-speed, as it is derived from linseed and will combine with the existing linseed oil. Both Lin-speed and True oil will give it a glossier finish.

Both Linspeed and True oil are linseed based finishes. I do not know what Linspeed does but for my money there are better finishes than either of them. If you put any finish over the existing oil finish you will just cover up the problem but you will still see it. It has to be removed and I would not do it by sanding but rather by a stripper. It really is easy to do but you will have to remove the metalwork. If you are sanding the stock to any degree, the action should be replaced with a metal "shield" pinched between the stock and the action to eliminate scratches. You do not want to sand the wood so that it is below the level of the metal. The shield is just very thin sheet metal bent so that it will lay flat on the acion. Scalloped box locks need some shaping of the shield so it will lay flat. You can also cut the metal and use double sided sticky tape to attach it. If after stripping, you just need some minor sanding, you can do it with the wood free of the action.

Don't be so afraid of trying this. If the gun is a box lock, it will be relatively easy to remove the action for finishing.

If you want a shiny finish try some teak oil. BennMatte will give you a gloss finish also if you apply enough build up coats

Customstox is right, No need to be afraid to strip the the linseed oil off. Most strippers are simply painted on and allowed time to work and then wipe them off. Just read the directions on the can. Stripping the linssed oil off will be no harder than hand rubbing in a new finish. But it really needs to come off to remove that cloudy look.

My head is really spinning now!! I am afraid to take the metal off the gun...it is a sidelock, and I don't want to mess it up...I know, I shouldn't have tried to re-finish it in the first place!
So the Tru-oil or Teak oil OVER the linseed will still look cloudy, am I right? Should I try the Tru-oil over and see what happens, or is it time for the gunsmith?

Wolfgar,
A sidelock is not that much harder to disassemble and reassemble. Your worst case situation is that you have to take it to a smith to get it back together. I will lead you through the finishing step by step if you wish. We can do it by phone or by email.

There is some madness to my method. I delight in getting people with a hesitancy to do wwood work to a point where they find that not only they can do this kind of work, but also they enjoy it. If I could turn you into another stock junky, it would just make my day.

So you will not be alone if you want the help.

Chic's offer is good stuff, Wolfgar. He not only knows what he's talking about.....he can teach it also. More than one person has benefitted from his tutelage. Myself included.

GV

Wolfgar: You would be well advised to take Chic's advice and offer. Believe me, when you refinish your stock, that firearm will mean a whole lot more to you and you will have one of the best teaching you how to do it. Go for it ... Tom Purdom

OK Chic you did it now!
I took all of the metal off. Whew, glad it's over! The gun is a William Evans sidelock, made in 1908. I became so excited taking it apart and realizing how perfectly these guns were made back then.It was like opening a secret passage that has not been opened for 100 years. The locks are as beautifully made as a swiss watch mechanism. The inside wood looks pretty good too, no cracks, but a bit oil soaked.
I will buy a stripper and get the old finish off like you fellas say I should.
How should I dry the oil out of the inside wood surfaces?
When I get it stripped, I'll get back to you all and we'll start step 2. I am very excited now to get it right, stain, finish etc...I want it to be perfect. I think alot of us here will read along with us a learn alot too.
Thanks again Chic for your generosity, and for holding my hand through it.
While I strip, should I buy just plain hardware store teak oil for that glossy oil finish? Can you recommend a red/brown dye?

You fellas out there??

Now that I'm thinking about it, where can I send my action, and locks to be completely disassembled, cleaned and lubed while I do the wood work?
Thanks again fellas, now get me started with the finish stripping and removing the oil from the stock head!!

I can't help with someone to work on the sidelock, but start with any good commercial stripper. I prefer Formby's. I know some that don't. Just follow the directions and it should wash off with water at the end. I use a scotchbrite pad and LIGHTLY wipe the finish off after the stripper has set the prescribed time and then wash. When dry, you will see if you need any stain. That will be after a very light sanding with fine grain paper.

Wolfgar, give Dennis Potter at 414-425-4830 a call on the sidelocks. He specializes in shotguns and is very good at his work.

If you are talking about removing gun oil that has seeped into the stock head, you need a whitener. Brownells sells it but you can also get it from a swimming pool maintenance company. Ask them for some Diatomaceous Earth (DE). It is the microscopic skeletons of tiny sea creatures. Enough of that info. Take it and mix with a solvent like Mineral spirits to make a paste. Wipe it onto the oil areas and it will draw the oil out and the paste will turn a yellow color. Keep doing it until it stops working. You may want to let it set for a few days and let any oil migrate and try it again.

Formbys that Larry mentioned will work well. I don't like using the scotchbrite pads as they can be pretty agressive sanders. I like to use plastic scrapers to get most of the material off or a fine steel wool, a paper towel works too. BTW, wear gloves, this stuff can be pretty mean to your skin.

http://www.williamevans.com/home.htm

Customstox,
I will strip the wood over the weekend and let you know how it goes. How can I tell if the head is oil soaked enough to need the whitening? Will the wood stripper suck any oil out, and for that matter, would de-greaser or brake cleaner work?
Thanks again for holding my hand through this.
BTW, what finishing products should I order to be ready? I am thinking Tru-oil and some nice red/brown stain. I have the rottenstone already. How about the wood filler, or will I just make a slurry with oil and the wood dust?
Thanks and you asked for it!

OK fellas, don't bail out on me now. Please read my previous reply's and get me started!
Thanks again

Wolfgar,
If the head of the stock looks considerably darker than the surrounding area, then it is likely oil that has migrated down from the metal. A lot of smart old shotgunners back in that era, used to put their shotguns to rest muzzle down and the oil did not become such a problem. After you get the finish off just take a close look. I will try to round up some DE around here. I think I have some in the dark reaches of my shop. I do not like to use a lot of solvents to remove oil as it can just spread it further. For some reason, the paste will draw it out with out getting the wood drenched with liquid.

I would stay away from stains if you can. Once you get the finish off and the wood clean, you can get a grasp of what the stock will look like with finish. Often just a wet rag will bring up the color. A stain is a pain to deal with when appllying an oil finish.

Shoot Daly's Paints an email and see if they have any dealers in your area. I would stay away from tru oil. I think you can get a lot better finish with some more time with other finishes. Honestly, I avoid almost any kind of linseed oil finish. Benne matte would be a good one to start with as a sealer coat or any polymer modified tung oil.

The best way, although not the quickest, to fill the pores is by wet sanding with your oil. You make a slurry (mud coat) on the surface of the stock and wipe the residue into the pores. let it dry for at least a week and then wet sand it back to the surface. If you leave some small patches of the slurry it will show up in the first coat and you then can wet sand that small area back again. You need to use a backing block and the best one is a small piece of wood, 1" x 2 1/4" x 3/8". You cut wet/dry paper so that it will overlap the block on he sides and fold it so it makes a sharp edge. WEt sand the stock with that small block. The first one, making the mud coat will take a couple of hours. You will need some round shaped rubber backing blocks for curved or fluted areas. You can find them at woodworking stores or on line at Woodcraft. Do not use your fingers for a backing block.

This is not rocket science. It is grunt finishing 101.

As I said, I will be off skiing until next Thursday.

Yes Steve, it has been mentioned. Did you get tired of needling Williams, or is just Montana Cabin fever.