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Hey guys, I don't have my book in front of me (the stockmaking one everybody has, with all the examples of checkering) but there were a couple patterns in it that I loved and was wondering if 1. anybody has used them 2. what rifles they're appropriate on. One was "mystic maze" the other I think was roy rodgers red rocket or something like that. the rocket one I thought would be great on a 264 win mag, 224 clark, 338-378 weatherby etc. the mystic maze I don't know what it fits, but it was a great pattern in my mind. I think it was Kennedy's book, if anybody has pics of these and wants to post them I'd be much appreciative. Red | ||
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The rocket pattern doesn't spin me, at all, but the forearm portion of the maze is interesting. If the grip portion had also been done with diamonds instead of open angles, I think it would be OK for a streamlined rifle like a pre-64 M70. However IMO a more vertical bolt handle line, such as on many Mausers, would clash whereas the swept-back M70 handle matches quite well. The M70 action reminds me of a Cessna 310, the later one with the swept-back vertical stabilizer and the streamlined tip tanks; it looks like it's doing 500 knots when it's just sittin' on the ramp! Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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My rule for choosing checkering patterns: Highly figured fancy wood looks best with a simpler pattern, plainer low contrast wood provides a better canvas for the decorative highly detailed complex patterns...just my humble [yet informed] opinion. | |||
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Some things went out of style for a reason. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Oh, I don't know;remember the mini skirts? | |||
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I've done my share of space age patterns....three kids, mortgage, two cats, a dog...well you get the idea. These "spacy" patterns are in such bad taste! Imbellishment belongs on the metal...not the wood. It's been years now since anyone wanted a fluer de lis and if they do...I'm busy that day! Well executed point patterns do not allow for anything but straight, unwavering, properly spaced lines...with a FDL...you can get by with a lot of sloppy. | |||
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I don't have any reference pics but have seen checkering jobs before that had a simple diamond inset in the pattern, small border, and in the diamond a finer checkering pattern. that looked good. I don't usually care for fluer de lis myself. I do appreciate over the top of the wrist jobs, just because I know they're harder to execute so the work has to be that much better. | |||
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They're "right" when they are what you want on YOUR rifle. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Here's a DGR by Jerry Fisher, it's in the book.  And here's a mannlicher by Dale Goens, it's also in the book.  'Taste' is a creation of the taster's imagination and will vary over the years with not only the taster's development but also the change in fashions. Taste is chocolate vs vanilla vs tutti-frutti, that is, strictly personal. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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...and that book was written when? Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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What's your point, Roger? 'Taste' is just another word for 'fashion'. Nowadays the fashion among a certain crowd is a point pattern with mullered borders and cheap imitation wrap-arounds. A different crowd prefers genuine REAL wraparounds, maybe with mullered borders and maybe not; yet another crowd prefers flat-top checkering (IMO an affectation if ever there was one but not 'bad taste'); and still another group might prefer carving to provide a REAL gripping surface for a REAL using-type 'DGR'. Different strokes. All beauty depends upon the opinion of the beholder. For instance all I personally hafta do is open a book, almost any book, of photos of custom rifles and/or engraving of same, and I see pics of some fearful turkeys that I wouldn't even allow to be in the same room with my own stuff! But it's not BAD taste, it's just DIFFERENT taste. Obviously other folks had other opinions and were prepared to follow their own ideas, so what? I'm sure that their rifles seemed beautiful to at least SOME of the folks seeing them. And, contrary to what some cake-eating wine (and art) snobs maintain, there are no absolutes when it comes to 'taste' because it's all subjective. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Taste is not all subjective. Some things are just plain tacky. Just because it may be well executed doesn't make it less tacky. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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My point is that it's dated...I have an Ottmar rifle that is a combo, point and fluer checkering pattern. I wouldn't trade it for the world, but if I was getting it done again it would be a simple point pattern. Why? Because it would always be current and not out of "fashion". The older I get, the more conservative my tastes are. If you like wild, buy wild, my advice is to stay conservative. Roger Kehr Kehr Engraving Company (360)456-0831 | |||
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There Ya Go!! That is spelled T A C K Y!!!  | |||
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Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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I agree....especially on a DGR.....that's kin to hanging fuzzy dice from the rear view mirror of your 4x4 pickup! | |||
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Jerry had a wife, kids and a mortgage too...I've said it before...when the man wants a blue suit..you turn on the blue lights..especially when you're trying your best to keep the wolf from the door. Shit..Joe..learn from the experience of others! | |||
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'Dated' I can agree with. Then, according to that reasoning, the F-d-L falls into the same category as flat-top and borderless and skip-line and carving and point and baroque and mullered borders. The initial general use of all these designs can also be 'dated' to a prior time when it first became fashionable; some designs have remained more popular with some groups than with other groups and some groups have changed their opinions of what they consider fashionable over time (the SCI group is just such an example). Just because the particular design isn't to your taste or current fashion doesn't mean that lots of other folks don't think it's the best thing in the world. Please don't let yourselves fall into the category of taste nazis. Remember in some circles a Rolex watch is a sure indicator of a weak-kneed wussy, but I don't think you would necessarily agree... I personally prefer point patterns with mullered borders and REAL wraparounds on both forearm and wrist but I don't necessarily criticize anyone else for opting for the cheaper almost-real wraparounds that are being shown lately, or even for completely separate left-right panels like the old-timers used. And I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who can't wholeheartedly admire and appreciate Dale Goens' 'dated' work. Regardless of whatever you personally may believe, his work whether point or F-d-L or ribbons is timelessly classic and IMO will still be providing inspiration for smiths 100 years from now. And, speaking of tacky, you will please note that neither Dale Goens nor Jerry Fisher does/did any cheap fake almost-wraparounds, at least not that I've seen. Like Scrollcutter said, if you like it then buy it. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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__________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Could be worse.....could be that god awful tupperware "cheezy" checkering on McMillan stocks. That to me is the epitome of "tacky" or "tasteless." 100% bona fide pure dogshit. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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Well get on the barf bags as you guys sure as hell ain't going to like this!!!     /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Is that yours?!  J.D. I personally think that Goens pattern is kick ass, and I don't like fluer d lis, but I'd take that job, and love the ribbons. Red | |||
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Love the Dale Goens job. I don't think I'd use it on one of my rifles as I have come to prefer a point pattern but it is beautifully executed and handsome. Jerry Liles | |||
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Those look very "presidential" to me. But if it makes you happy. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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 "presidential" Now that's a good one! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Really? Just for grins & giggles, I glanced into a few custom rifle books with pictures of various craftsmen's work. One of these was the ACGG Guild publication Custom Firearms Artistry, where each ACGG member was given one full page to show, presumably, his very best work in which, again presumably, he takes the most pride. You know, examples of the sort of things he creates, so that his clients can see if his work suits them or not. Presumably no intellingent Guild craftsman would exhibit any of his work that he thought might be considered to be in bad taste. Lots & lots of F-d-L and/or ribbon patterns shown in the ACGG book, some are mediocre but others are stunning. Names of F-d-L craftsmen fairly LEAPED out at me, names like Billingsley, Christman, Dressel, Goudy, Grace, McFarland, Snapp, West and - wait! Ohmygod! There! There on page 85! There, in all its radiant beauty, there on page 85, is a photo of Duane and his very own Fleur-de-Lis rifle. If I REALLY thought something was in such bad taste, I don't think I'd be showing it as an example of my professional work; but, different strokes....BTW IMO Duane's is an EXCELLENT job, certainly one of the best ones shown. This ACGG publication is copyright 2007; how many years did you say it's been? Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Don't ask me what happened, when I left Viet Nam, we were winning. | |||
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I've gotta disagree with that. Taste is purely subjective. There is just no way to quantify or define objectively what is good taste and what is bad. Guys, this is the classic Ginger vs MaryAnn debate applied to checkering styles. There simply is no correct answer.
Despite what I said above, I agree completely. Contradictory? I don't think so. Not if you add "to most normal people." Consider Ginger vs MaryAnn, then throw in Charo.
Again, I agree. BTW, The lipstick on your buffalo avatar is very well executed...  Duane, you are disapointing the crowd! I will have to go make some more popcorn... | |||
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Comes with maturity, I guess | |||
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Well good on ya for not taking the bait. Let this thread rest in peace... | |||
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IMO simpler is better. | |||
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One could say the same thing about metal embellishments such as engraving and inlays. At least checkering serves a functional purpose. | |||
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For future debates, it is Fleur de Lis. Now, I know Duane isn't dependant on his French speaking clients, just thought I'd throw in the proper spelling in case the debate rages on for several pages. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Thanks for the spelling lesson Frenchy. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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