The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Sako Extractors on M700 bolt ???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Sako Extractors on M700 bolt ??? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
Trying to calm my neurosis to have evrything the same... I have two custom rifles, from the same maker, built off of Remington 700 actions. One has a Sako extractor installed on the bolt and the other has the factory Remington extractor. My understanding of the Sako extractor on Remington M700 is that: - it's more heavy duty for pulling an occasion sticky case, therefore, more reliable - it's a legitimate extractor re-install option when a custom build requires opening the bolt face and removing the factory Remington extractor Trying to figure out if I would benefit from having one installed on my 300WinMag or would it just be a custom "chotchkie" on MY rifle...??? | ||
|
One of Us |
 Well, the Remington coined extractor is actually stronger than the Sako style extractor. The Remington extractor is a shearing style extractor like the Savage 110 or post 64 Winchester model 70 style extractor. The more pressure that is put on it, the more resistance to the extractor slipping out of the groove is generated. If a cartridge is jammed into the chamber to the point that it is non-removable, the extractor will simply cut out a piece of the cartridge rim, or rip the front ring right off of the bolt. The Sako style is a camming extractor. As you apply pressure you are also creating a force that is trying to cam the extractor off of the rim. At whatever point, that is exactly what happens. The extractor usually always survives but the case is still stuck in the chamber. The Sako extractor always lets go before the Remington does. But as I am a gunsmith it is economically advantageous for me to rip out your Remington extractor, destroy the gas handling capabilities of the action and weaken the bolt by putting a big-ass cut in it and charge you a lot of money. I think it's a no brainer. When would you like me to start? ADD NOTE: I see that you are in PA. You can't send it to me because I'm in Canada, you have to send it to dpcd ! Even though he's not SUPER NICE, like I am! lol When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
One of Us |
  I enjoy reading Speerchuckers messages. If I'm ever in Edmonton I'd love to buy you a beer."Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess there's just nothing more to say.  me by Rod Henrickson, on FlickrWhen I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
One of Us |
But he does come out with something useful, once in a great while. Back on the Sako thing; you realize that you void any factory warranty, and also obviate the safety feature designed into the Remington 700. I have seen guys blow them up, and it does work as advertised. When I say blow up. I mean that the bolt nose expands into the barrel which makes a seal, keeping most of the gas off your face. I am not in favor of Sako extractors, nor am I against them. I have installed them for paying customers. | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1 Speerchucker... Thank You. Thank You. Thank You. Between your explanation and DPCDs follow-up, I couldn't have asked for a better reality check. Obviously my understanding was skewed by a lot of "Google-ing." I appreciate the education!!! Sorry I won't be following up with any Sako extractor installation work... | |||
|
| one of us |
I want to know when Speerchucker's book is coming out. I have a E-publisher friend who is ready willing and able to take off with it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
To add fuel to Speerchucker's comments...Jim Carmichel reckons the factory 700 extractor to a Chinese finger prison. The harder you pull, the tighter it gets. Popular conversion..which befuddles common sense More fodder for my book "Bullshit in the gun business" So far the unedited version weighs in at 15000 pounds! | |||
|
| One of Us |
You will notice how gunplumbers who are in it for the long haul always tend to be more or less honest, aloof, non-committal, non-judgmental, but always end with the same subliminal message: I have installed them for paying customers. = When would you like me to start? It's a bitch when you know the rent has to be paid at the end of the month.When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
| One of Us |
Duane's book won't be as funny as Speer's book for sure. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yeah, Momma always said: "if you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle the fawkers with bullshit." Well maybe someone else said that, but it holds true none the same.When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
| One of Us |
Except that most remingtons have no extraction cam, so you have to "pull" by hammering on the bolt handle with whatever is handy. Then the solder joint breaks and the handle comes off. I mean, as long as we're adding fuel...  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Now now now jpl. You're using meadow muffins for fuel for the fire and baiting everyone. Those meadow muffins burn, but not so good and only until someone thinks about it. LOL Remington stole Mausers extraction cam on the bolt handle, just like everyone else. But as you point out the handle is furnace brazed on. For a while Remington did have a problem with bad furnace braze joints and quite a number of them did break off. They have however, corrected the problem (many years ago). I can't say that I have ever seen a handle broken off of one of the stainless rifles and although I'm not a metalurogical-eggspurt (that's my new word for today) Brazing welds to stainless are not as strong as those to chromoly steel. I think. I read that some where. So they have obviously rectified the situation if the welds are holding on stainless. LOL You have been very bad, jpl! LMAO ROFF When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
| one of us |
I know this propbaly has been brought up before but a low mounted scope needs to have a Kevlar pad duct taped the underside of the scope to prevent the spent cases from denting the scope tube over time You can always operate the bolt slowly but then some cases will drop back into the ejection port, I've been told this can also be a problem | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree about the Remington extractor. I'm just worried that my ancient Mod 721 will someday need a new one and extractors for the 721 are less common than perfect blue diamonds. Other than replace with a Mod 700 bolt what would be the best way to fix it? Jerry Liles | |||
|
| One of Us |
Most of these expensive, new Chinese scopes with the fake 30mm tubes are temperamental with the Sako extractor modification. You can't dent the 1/4 inch thick tubes but the empties like to hit the tube and fall back inside all the time. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
| One of Us |
Is the Sako extractor the same as the M-16 extractor, or close enough? I remember reading somewhere recently that the M-16 extractor can let loose and go flying with a high enough pressure round. Any issues with that? | |||
|
| One of Us |
The Sako extractor is better on Sakos than on Remingtons. You can only polish a turd so much before the corn shine though. And yes the bolt handles fall off. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well, the M16 extractor is pinned in, if that counts for anything. The cut for the M16 system is shallower than that of the Sako style. If memory serves the depth of cut for the M16 at the face is .116 inch. The depth of cut at the face for the Sako is .160 inch. Both styles theoretically weaken the system and destroy the gas handling capabilities that were designed into the action. In an really bad overload the brass should flow to the tight fitting bolt nose and barrel recess and stop any pressure from escaping. In a horrific overload the steel bolt nose should actually expand into the barrel recess and seal everything closed. The cuts for either extractor destroy these features. Both of these extractors are just ever so much more shrapnel if things get chaotic. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
| one of us |
Those early 700 & 721 extractors are as rare as rocking horse turds. I had a PH in Bots ask me to find one for his 721 30-06 and it was a mission to find one. When I shipped it I expressed the fact that replacing it would be almost impossible from that day forward. | |||
|
One of Us |
Collaboration might be a possibility?? Doug Wilhelmi NRA Life Member | |||
|
| one of us |
Once bitten, twice shy. I was shooting from prone with a very accurate Model 700. I cycle the bolt like I have a pair, because I have a pair. I slapped the bolt upward, and ended up with a broken bolt handle flying through the air. The bolt, and the brazing failed. It was a stainless steel handle, and bolt. Since then, I have my Rem 700 bolt handles replaced as a matter of course with something stronger (forged). If brazed on, I have two torx screws drilled and tapped in. If welded on, I don't worry as much.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I used to be a huge Rem 700 fan. Then I experienced just about every malfunction we've all heard about: failure to extract, failure to feed, broken extractor, AD, stainless that galled, and I am sure I am missing some. I switched to CRF M-70s and all those issues went away...... | |||
|
| one of us |
The whole Sako extractor business started when we were opening up Remingtons for the PPC and needed an extractor. People installed Sako, m16, Weatherby, and BSA extractors and they did the job. Various extractors were also used to replace the unavailable 722 extractors. I liked the BSA extractor best with the Weatherby a close second. Regards, Bill | |||
|
| One of Us |
My 700 broke three factory extractors before I had an M16 type extractor installed. Problem solved. Pierce Engineering does both type conversions for $75. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
|
One of Us |
I have never had a problem with a 700. Not saying I won't, not saying others don't. I still like the Howa 1500 better than anything else for factory cheap rifles. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have two for a guy who told me he wanted them and I have not heard back from him, both are for the 308/30-06. email me if you need one or two: Jkob60@msn.com Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just curious, what kind of extractor does Remington use on their 338 Lapuas? | |||
|
| One of Us |
They made their own. It's a variant of the M16 extractor, but I believe it's a bit shorter and thinner. I have only seen a couple and I didn't bother to measure them. That cartridge actually generates to much bolt thrust for that action. It's safe as long as nothing goes wrong but I find that stuff tends to go wrong a lot in this world.But that's just my one sided chikin-chit opinion. When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
| One of Us |
Speerchucker do you reckon that the 338 Lapua is too much for Savages rifle as well? I have heard of Savage 338 Lapuas cracking receivers. I have not actually seen this, it might be heresay. I would think it doesn't leave much room for error. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well Big Wonderful Wyoming. I guess that would be a matter of personal concern and interpretation. When I was working for Remington they were amendment that shooting proof loads in rifles was a very dangerous past time and should always be done in controlled situations. They were also very resolute in their opinion that repeated firing of proof loads was damaging to the firearm. It was their findings that the bolt thrust was simply to high and tended to move metal around in a detrimental fashion. With that in mind you can see that the bolt thrusts in the 338 Lapua are actually higher than those of belted magnum proof loads. So while the standard sporting actions of today will tolerate the 338 Lapua bolt thrusts in a perfect world. I'm pretty sure things would get a bit chaotic if things were less, than perfect. So, govern yourself accordingly. There is very little built in safety margin with that cartridge and if you screw up, you may have a bomb.  Proof Loads by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr proof pressures by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr 338 lapua 338 Winchester by Rod Henrickson, on FlickrWhen I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
|
one of us |
EXACTLY !  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am not someone who messes around with load data. I don't exceed load data ever. Not worth my being able to make a living. Not worth my life. thanks for that, I appreciate your continued shared knowledge. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Sako Extractors on M700 bolt ???
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia