I know these mausers are famous for being built into 45-70 but what else has anyone made from them. A close friend of mine passed away and I now have in my possession an action. I do have a .458 barrel I can use for the 45-70 but not sure if I will. He had been thinking of different options such as .270 WSM but we don't trust the integrity of the action for such high PSI. I'm curious is there is anything else interesting to be made from this action.

I have one in 45-70 and 30 US. Have seen them done in 303 Brit and 7.62x54R. I don't think the action lends itself well to rimless cartridges. I've heard of, but never seen one in 348 Winchester. A wildcat based on any of the above would be interesting if nothing else.

.....450 and 50 Alaskan, based on 348 case......450 if you've already got the barrel

Roger

back when I was in business I had a customer who was thrilled by these actions. I installed a barrel in 375/348 and 450 AK. he also had one in 416/348 and a straight up 348. he bought his own reamers so he could get what he wanted to work with.

I have one in .348. The throat in the standard 348 is long enough to seat bullets out full length of the mag.
I still need to get a swage die to swage .358 spritzers down to .348.

The question you need to ask yourself is, do you need a standard cartridge with factory ammunition available or will you be reloading?

There were two military chamberings for the Siamese mauser. The first cartridge was 8x50R (type 45) and was based on the 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher. The second cartridge, 8x52R (type 66), utilizes the same rim and bore size but the cartridge is fatter, a tad longer, and was loaded with an improved bullet. The 45 and 66 designations come from years they were adopted using the Thai and Buddhist calendar. Type 45 is used to represent the year 2445 (๒๔๔๕), or 1902 Gregorian, and Type 66 is used to represent the year 2466 (๒๔๖๖), or 1923 Gregorian.

Most of the earlier 8x50R chambered Siamese rifles were rechambered for the later 8x52R Siamese cartridge and put back into service. A quick way to identify the rifles is to look at the rear sight. Rifles chambered for 8x50R have the full, large humped ramp on the rear sight. Rifles rechambered to 8x52R had to have the rear sight lowered and the ramp was ground down. The grinding obliterated part of the elevation markings on the side of the converted sights.

The Siamese mausers were designed for fat cartridges with a wide rim and the magazine and feed rails are made accordingly. Some claim they are among the strongest of the M98 type mausers. Surely, they are plenty strong enough for any standard commercial cartridge. But the fact remains they were made for fat, rimmed cartridges and they have been sought out for that characteristic.

If you want to shoot standard factory ammunition then the cartridge with the best fit to the action without alteration is 7.65x54R. All it should take is a new barrel. The .30-40 Krag is probably the next best fitting cartridge followed closely by the .303 British. The .444 Marlin has been used with some success but it is not as good a fit as the other cartridges and might require a little work to get it to feed and eject reliably.

The .45-70 has been the most popular conversion for the Siamese rifles but takes some work to get it to fit and work properly. I have seen several beautiful Siamese mausers in .45-70 that functioned flawlessly. I have also seen some that would only function with a couple of rounds and some that only functioned as a single shot. If you decide to have a .45-70 built it is important that you send it to one of the better gunsmiths, one who already has converted several of these rifles to .45-70.

My cartridge recommendations for building a rifle for a standard cartridge are 7.62x54R or .45-70.

There are many wildcats that have been used in Siamese mausers. Nearly all are based on the .45-70 or .348 Win cases. Building a proper Siamese mauser actioned rifle in any caliber based on those cases requires much more than rebarreling. How much more depends on the caliber. My recommendation for a good gunsmith is restated here.

The easiest wildcat for an original Type 45 chambered rifle would be to run a 7.62x54R reamer into it to convert it to a 8x54R wildcat. I have never seen that done but I have a type 45 rifle and I have been considering it for some time. That would give you a rifle comparable to an 8mm-06. But if the conversion started with an old military barrel with a worn bore you might not be happy with the results. Reaming to 8x54R is not an option for a rifle converted to type 66 ammunition because that cartridge is fatter than 7.62x54R and the reamer would not clean the chamber.

If you are considering a wildcat my recommendation is to rebarrel to the .405 Grenadier.

The .405 Grenadier is a .411 cartridge. It is NOT proprietary or commercial and chamber reamers can be ordered directly from the Pacific Tool and Gauge website store. It is based on the 7.62x54R cartridge case and should work wonderfully with rebarreling and no other alteration. Cases are made with a simple fire-forming. There is a write up of the cartridge here, note that .405 Grenadier velocities achieved in the Mosin Nagant rifle should be bested in a Siamese mauser. Go to the bottom of the thread to see the pictures -- http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/6951000032

Here is a modern 7.62x54R cartridge, a very good choice for the Siamese mauser.
It is flanked by .405 Grenadier with 300-gr TSX and .405 Grenadier with 400-gr Woodleigh.
The .405 Grenadier is an excellent big bore choice for the Siamese rifle and a better fit
than .45-70 but you're not going to find .405 Grenadier cartridges on a store shelf.


I have another very interesting cartridge, a small bore, in the works for these rifles. It too will only require a rebarreling. But I hesitate to recommend it here in the open forum because I am still waiting on the reamer and no rifle has yet been built or tested with it. If you are interested you can PM me and I'll give you a preview. If you like the idea I would be happy to let you borrow the reamer.

If you are using it for anything but a big rimmed cartridge, you are wasting what is now, a scarce action made for rimmed ammo. You can use any action for a WSM, although I can't fathom why.
The 405 Grenadier is a good cartridge. So is 45-70 of course.

#1). The big wind when these were new to the market was the conversion to .45/70. Then RCBS (now Huntington Die Specialties) offered dies to make case for both Siam cartridges from .45/70. The .38/56 (not .38/55 which is on the .30/30 rim) is on the .45/70 case and "improved" gives you the performance of the .375 H&H almost (which was not loaded "hot" for use in "hot" parts of the world.)
#2). The .348 WCF was on the .50/70 case which is a bit larger in diameter. I consulted with Mr. Ackley and had a Siam done (by the Ackley shop) to .35/.348 Ackley IMproved... To be extremely brief I have loaded "starting loads" for the .358 Norma magnum (after careful work with the Powley slide rule, long ago) and did not get unacceptable or even interesting pressure buy my standards... !! One gun and totally ancedotal. Act at your own risk!!!! I have done mid range loads without unacceptable pressure to me. I resist "max loads." So IMHO you have as an option about any rimmed cartridge with less length than the old buffalo gun rounds, way too long. 7.62x54R up. Mike Bellm, who took over for Mr. A, (bellmtcs.com) did an interesting thing. He uses .444 Marlin brass and dies for the .308 family (.243 up) to make a rimmed round for single shots... like T/C. You could have a rimmed .243 or .260 of .333... Luck Happy Trails.

They are NOT super actions ! No mystery about them as far as strength . They were designed for rimmed cartridges with a fast sloping case . Mauser and the Jap action are strong by design and adequate materials . Without both characteristics they wouldn't be famous .
Use another action . After all even when loaded hot the 45/70 isn't a high pressure modern round .

I never liked the WSM idea for several reasons so I was glad when he decided against it. You all do have some great suggestions.

Of course for years I wanted to build a 45-70 on one but after I have shot Sharps single shots, it seems that only a sharps appeals to me in that cartridge. Now the 450 AK sounds like a definite winner! It has always interested me but I've never had an appropriate lever gun.

Definitely some food for thought. Since I have the .458 barrel it would be hard not to jump on that one.

I have one that I re-barreled to 375/348 Ackley Imp (also called the 375 Alaskan). Gives up less than 100 fps to a 375 H&H with 270 gr and lighter bullets. The heavier bullets must be seated deep and compromise case capacity. Feeds good. Quite a little thumper. I also have one with a very good 8x52R barrel. I make cases from 45-70 brass. Rim must be turned down.

I built on in 6.5-348 Ackley , I should of used a regular Mauser ! These were cheap and I lived in NJ at the time in my uncles gunshop .
Still have the Reamers if any licensed and insured smiths want to borrow ! Or people I know either here or on 6 br forum .
Ggmac over there . Form Reamers also .
There 40-45 yrs young Clymers
Gary

I forgot to add that it's so much easier to cut the brass rim to a rimless and match almost any bolt face ! There by eliminating the feeding and loading steps necessary for rimmed cases

quote:

Originally posted by Gary MacDonald:
I forgot to add that it's so much easier to cut the brass rim to a rimless and match almost any bolt face ! There by eliminating the feeding and loading steps necessary for rimmed cases

Not to mention that making a nice rifle out of a mauser typically takes WAY to much work IMO. I have build a few and they all shot well and were nice guns but military guns take a lot of cleanup.

quote:

If you are considering a wildcat my recommendation is to rebarrel to the .405 Grenadier.

That is a pretty tempting option as well sir. .411's are always a hoot. Looks to seriously outperform Teddy's favorite from what I see on your other thread. What length was the barrel? (Ooops! 25" I now see re-reading it.)

Have you tested with shorter barrels at all say 20-22"?

quote:

Originally posted by guncurtis2:

That is a pretty tempting option as well sir. .411's are always a hoot. Looks to seriously outperform Teddy's favorite from what I see on your other thread. What length was the barrel? (Ooops! 25" I now see re-reading it.)

Have you tested with shorter barrels at all say 20-22"?

I have a converted Marlin model 1895 with a 22" barrel but the overall cartridge length must be kept below 2.6" and it can't take the same ,pressure a Mosin-Nagant or Siamese Mauser can. So, I don't have an apples to apples comparison for the different barrel lengths. My best guess (using Quickload) is that you would see a velocity difference of about 15-fps per inch for the 400-gr Woodleigh, about 12-fps per inch for the 350-gr Swift, and 17-fps per inch with the Barnes 300-gr TSX. Those are just estimates of the differences between 22" and 25" barrel lengths.

I used a McGowen barrel. It has a .4115" bore and works well with every .411 and .412 bullet I've tried. The barrel contour is the same as a Douglas #5 and it's just right for the caliber. It's more than enough barrel without being overly heavy, even at 25".

I have not had one made up in the Siamese yet, just the Marlin and Mosin, but I am on the verge. I have two Siamese Mausers, one in 8x50R and one in 8x52R, and I'm still deciding which one I want to use. I am sure that either one would easily be able to digest some very hefty loads.

I think the 8x52R cartridge is interesting. My Siamese is still in the original caliber and handload it using formed brass from Buffalo Arms. You can easily top 3000 fps with 154 grain 8mm bullets. Mine gives superb accuracy and has a cherry bore. LEE Precision made the collet dies and case trimmer pilot for an affordable price.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by guncurtis2:

That is a pretty tempting option as well sir. .411's are always a hoot. Looks to seriously outperform Teddy's favorite from what I see on your other thread. What length was the barrel? (Ooops! 25" I now see re-reading it.)

Have you tested with shorter barrels at all say 20-22"?

I have a converted Marlin model 1895 with a 22" barrel but the overall cartridge length must be kept below 2.6" and it can't take the same ,pressure a Mosin-Nagant or Siamese Mauser can. So, I don't have an apples to apples comparison for the different barrel lengths. My best guess (using Quickload) is that you would see a velocity difference of about 15-fps per inch for the 400-gr Woodleigh, about 12-fps per inch for the 350-gr Swift, and 17-fps per inch with the Barnes 300-gr TSX. Those are just estimates of the differences between 22" and 25" barrel lengths.

I used a McGowen barrel. It has a .4115" bore and works well with every .411 and .412 bullet I've tried. The barrel contour is the same as a Douglas #5 and it's just right for the caliber. It's more than enough barrel without being overly heavy, even at 25".

I have not had one made up in the Siamese yet, just the Marlin and Mosin, but I am on the verge. I have two Siamese Mausers, one in 8x50R and one in 8x52R, and I'm still deciding which one I want to use. I am sure that either one would easily be able to digest some very hefty loads.

Those are about the figures i would expect. A 20-22" brush gun might be a good option in the .411.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I think the 8x52R cartridge is interesting. My Siamese is still in the original caliber and handload it using formed brass from Buffalo Arms. You can easily top 3000 fps with 154 grain 8mm bullets. Mine gives superb accuracy and has a cherry bore. LEE Precision made the collet dies and case trimmer pilot for an affordable price.

Those aren't bad numbers but this action is already stripped. I believe the barrel was in rough shape when my friend got it.

quote:

Originally posted by guncurtis2:

Those are about the figures i would expect. A 20-22" brush gun might be a good option in the .411.

At 20" you'd have a very handy big bore carbine.