Instead of all of them.

I can't imagine how miserable it must be to have to run through calibre options, correcting common mistruths etc time after time with some of the nimrods from the shooting public.

I get irritated to distraction by just reading a magazine article and they're well informed and not an intrinsic part of my business.

Hats off to them - I know I couldn't deal with it long term.

Could be that they've seen so much abuse of fine firearms that so many of the 'upper crust' seem to just shrug off. Seems a shame to have such good workmanship wasted on a bunch of idiots.

That "bunch of idiots" pays their bills and if someone wants to abuse a firearm before or after it is smithed then it just creates future business for the smiths. Some people seem to think a gun, however fine, is some kind of shrine, its not, its just a gun.

Not that I've been around that many of them lately, but most smiths I know/knew seemed like nice guys. They may not suffer idiots gladly, but that is anyone's prerogative.

its not just smiths - i think anybody who deals with the "public" gets that way. To many bitchers, over the years i've seen alot of guys start up in business and quit in a couple of years, and to a man they all say the same thing. "had plenty of business, liked what i was doing, but I couldn't take the people anymore" But then again there is kobe!!!!!

Butch, I had a guy come in the shop the other day with an AR upper he needed some work done on. Funny thing about this guy, he couldn't help himself; he just kept telling me how to do the job. I wondered why he even brought it over when he knows how to do it himself

The grumpy old man, "Mr know it all" syndrome hits males between 35 and 80.

If they just have to watch TV, then grumpiness is moderate, but if they have to fix something, the cognitive dissonance makes for grumpiness overdrive.

I think mostly it comes from growing up in Ely Minnesota and numerous attempts at flipping someone off but they don't see it.

Jim Kobe
one of us

Posted 25 April 2008 18:56 Hide Post
Butch, I had a guy come in the shop the other day with an AR upper he needed some work done on. Funny thing about this guy, he couldn't help himself; he just kept telling me how to do the job. I wondered why he even brought it over when he knows how to do it himself


Frustration comes from flipping off someone and them not seeing it.

Posts: 1971 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 10 July 2002


Well in my case Jim I probably know or think I know how to do almost anything !. As did your customer .

How ever where I differ is I wake up !. I then take or send my project to a qualified person with an explanation of what I would like to do and ask for their opinion as well . Get on the same page , leave a deposit and wait for them to CALL ME !.

I've learned that being UP FRONT with people is the ONLY way to do business regardless of what business ones in .

People are funny sorts .

Take personality A plus they are difficult sorts hyper know it alls .Phone day after day week after week .

Type B think they know it all are in a hurry want it yesterday .Tell you how to do it considering while their picking your brain on doing them selfs .



Type C decent people not overly in a hurry want the job done correctly might be able to do it them selfs , how ever know better ,are some what cost concerned .


Type D Cheap nit picky SOB's who want full gold engraved metal as well as carved stock for .02 on the $.


Then there are Type F CLOSE THE DOOR on them !.
They want something for nothing !. Then bad mouth you to boot !.

Nothing wrong with Ely nice water there Canadian waters , Who says ?.!.

How ever kind of like Cutbank Mt. in the winter WHITE and COLD !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

The "Grumpy-Know-it-all" made me laugh, there's a man here that fits that bill. Old Dave Ransberger from Cal Customs. However, I must say though, he usually is right though! He's a good man.
It is our source of income dealing with the customers, no doubt about it, however there are some at least with me that really get under my skin. It's a combination of a few that drive me nuts. Firstoff, the ones who still clutch onto "grand daddy's old 30-30" that tell storys of killing deer/elk/moose/buffalo at 3 miles away. Those are the ones that are the most stubborn usually I've noticed.
Than the ones who, similar to what Jim Kobe just mentioned, who read it on the internet and become the most renowned gunsmith in their area. Had a man the other day swearing up and down he milled out a rifle action to use for benchrest, but started to get uncomfortable and "not remembering" what setup he used, what tooling such as cutter bits, he kinda goffed and said it was a tool steel for the action and couldn't remember what he heat treated it out to. I started noting some frustration so I layed off and helped someone else.
The ones that always make my day better though, are the ones who firstoff accept how much it's going to cost for a service and not try to dwindle too much on the cost, and second the ones who actually correct me and give me some knowledge, like the old dudes. Some of them are walking books of knowledge that has helped me considerably ever since I started gunsmithing.
By far though, the ones who make me laugh are the ones who are the new Tactical breed. They are some outstanding shooters but they always seem so intense as far as what they're picking out and what modifications to do. It cracks me up to listen to some of them get so riled up and going when they start talking about their new Les Baer Premier or their Sig collections.
But as for most, I guess I'm usually one of the grumpy miserable old men. Never really realized that until just now.

...or the ones that come into the shop wanting a custom rifle built and insist on this and that. Fianlly when you give them the price,after putting in a few hours figuring costs and margin, it usually ends up with,"...well money is a little short now but I will get going on this next year..."

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
That "bunch of idiots" pays their bills...

Gatorgordo obviously knows a whole different group of gunamkers and gunsmiths than I do. All of them that I know, self included, rarely come close to making enough each month to cover their bills.

The sad part of it is that I am half-way serious.

It is just like the guides I know. They can all make more money doing something else, but year in and year out they keep putting up with knuckleheads because they love what they do. And thankfully in both professions the knuckleheads are definitely in the minority.

Gunsmiths are some of my favorite kind of people, and I have known several, and friends with several. Some are contrary, but usually I can get past that, by doing what Dr K advised, just be up front and blunt if necessary, then don't pester the guy. If I can't get past the grumpiness with a few reasonable attempts, then I just move on and don't do business with him. It ain't worth the aggrivation.

With a few exceptions, I have been using the services of the same gunsmith since about 1985. At that time he was an apprentice, but later got his own shop. It's not that this fellow is perfect, but honestly he rarely makes a mistake. He has done so many projects, that when he does make a mistake, I can easily forgive it and move on.

There have been times when I lived in other states that I grew impatient, or just tried another gunsmith. In one case it worked out pretty good, but I had to be specific with certain details. In many cases it didn't work out - over sometimes the simplest things, and I had to get rid of the item, or eventually have my long-term gunsmith fix it.

About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a guy in Georgia do some work - Big talker - about all his bench rest experience, and work he had done for his competitor friends. I had three Ruger 77 MkIIs stainless and wanted Timney triggers on all three. Very simple job for a real gunsmith. He bragged so much about how he could polish sear engagments, and get light chrisp pulls, etc. I told him to just install the triggers, and adjust them to about three pounds, and don't mess with the sear, etc. until I had a chance to test them.

When I picked up the rifles, he had messed with the sear - polishing etc, and none of the safeties would engage. He had the pull down to about two pounds, but they felt chrisp. I left the rifles so he could get the safety to engage, and picked them up later.

Over the next few years, I rarely used the rifles, and recently sent them all to my regular gunsmith for fitting stocks. After he started, he told me that the trigger on one of the rifles was not safe, and would fire if bumped. He asked me who did the trigger, (I think he thought I did it) and said the sear was rounded, definately not as they left the Timney factory. Anyway, he worked on it and salvaged the trigger. He found all three had been done the same way, and had to correct them all to make them safe. I received one of the rifles yesterday, and the trigger is good, chrisp, and about three pounds - just like I wanted in the first place. I cannot make the rifle dry fire by bumping it or slamming the bolt shut, something I didn't try before.

Anyway, this is a short story - one of many. Some gunsmiths are grumpy because they don't have it together. Those are the one's to look out for. Frankly, I don't need grumpiness. I just need the assurance that the job will be done at least safely.

I never did or never will say anything to the Smith who messed up those triggers, but it makes me cringe knowing there are many other unsafe trigger jobs out there in South Georgia, that he did.

So, my point is that a good relationship and confidence in my gunsmith is important. I need to be specific, and I also need to be able to say when something isn't right without getting in a battle of wills or ego. Grumpiness just gets in the way, and makes for an unneccerily unpleasant experience, and is certainly not an endearing character trait.

KB

The Metalsmith;

Did you know old Dave was is ONE HELL OF SHOT !.

I like Dave and he is A GOOD MAN !.

He knows his way around any Military Arms !.

When we lose him who in this area will replace him ?.

I just want my Smith to be honest with ME.
Because that's what I'm going to be with Him !.

I'm paying for his knowledge skill and expertise , he sets the price . If it's to high or I consider my project not worth it , I'll pay the Man for his time I took up inquiring into my project . That's fair and I only ask it in return .

Jim Kobe ; Are you ready for a small project ?.

I'd like to make it another project , how ever finding LH donor weapons are difficult out here least wise .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

ever notice that the guys with all the talk usually know the least?? seems like the guy that knows the most doesn't have to tell everybody what all he knows. competency is quiet be easily observed

butchloc ; I know a lot of things and post regularly on subjects i know or at like to think I know .

How ever Gunsmithing isn't one of them . I don't know squat about it !. Making or refinishing stocks or working on my own weapons isn't a gun smith !.

That's why I appreciate those who are .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

MetalSmith, Dave Ransberger aint grumpy.

He's a Gunsmith?

Business is business, gun smithing or otherwise.

It's actually ten words .

Their always polite and say ( Hello ) as soon as you hear the word government . RUN FOREST RUN !.

Because we all know what their type of help is really like !!!!!!!!!!!!.

I've been employed by them on two separate occasions over a 40 year stretch .

First time around I was a Volunteer ? Got paid little to no money to exterminate people . I didn't even know them , how ever when they tried returning the favor . Well it became a job !.

Second time around Protecting our Service Men and Women and was paid REAL WELL !. Go figure ?.

Then these company's who were supposed to have our Military Personnel's best interest , were less than forth coming on quality and supply transactions when dealing with our troops best interest !.
That pissed me off when I found out about " Cut backs " and lax testing on ALL the products that went out !.

This is what happens to Military Contracts that aren't overseen or worse private contractors Pulling the BS paper work shuffle or switcheroo !.
Well there are now a few of those Dirty SOB's IN JAIL . Personally I would have tried them for Treason and had them shot !.

Again the powers to be were not interested in my .02 worth on punishment procedures !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Why are so many gunsmiths miserable cantankerous......

Because they practice a lot? roger

I honestly think they get tired of all the misconceptions they have to deal with.

I see alot of customers expressing their own opinions alot looking for approval for their own ideas on how it should be.


I am by no means a Gunsmith. But I can see why they get a bit cranky.


The tactical group is a funny thing to me,
I have a buddy ALL TACTICAL and well informed AND well equipped in the AR15 dept atthe tune of @1800$$$$.

I went with him and Myself along with my pattern spraying Mini 14 bested him on the range.


And I mean pattern sprayer

He sure knows alot though...


Cal30

quote:

Why are so many gunsmiths miserable cantankerous......

It goes with the profession!!

When I was a young person the most important person in the community was the local blacksmith. The reason for this was he could fix nigh onto anything that needed fixing on the farm. He was always grumpy because he could afford to be, he was in demand. If he wasn't in demand you could afford to be grumpy but he probably did poor work anyway so you stayed away. If you ask why his prices were so high, he would point to his hired help and say. "See those guys back there? They don't work fast and they don't work cheap!!" If you didn't like it, you could go to another community to their blacksmith and be treated the same way your own treated you.

Now, a gunsmith is a very refined blacksmith, he can fix about anything wrong with a gun. He can afford to be grumpy because he is in demand if he does good work. If he is grumpy and a poor gunsmith you can afford to be grumpy also. If you don't like him you can take you gun work to another community and have their gunsmith work on it and if he is good he can afford to be grumpy also.

Now, if you find a really good gunsmith who is not grumpy you never tell anyone about him. When asked who did the work on your favorite shootin iron you reply, "Buba from No-Tellum Lane", and further mention "it is impossible to get there from where you are standing at the present and besides that he is extremely grumpy."

My gunsmith lives at No-Tellum Lane. He is good enough that he can afford to be grumpy, but he isn't. And as Forrest Gump said "And that's all I'm gonna say about that."

Hell yeah I know Dave's a good shot and saying he's a good man is putting it mildly! I just visited him today and he's doing really good lately. I don't think anyone's going to reach his caliber in this area for a while! One of my favorite passtimes is still sitting on one of those stools he has and listening to him with his stories. He is one man that if I am completely stumped or need advice, I'll go see what his opinions are and follow them.
Lol...and his wife is still good as ever, funny little lady. They make a great couple.

Just a guess on my part but 20-30 years of dealing with people that want guild quality work at ER Shaw prices and having to explain the difference on a regular basis would probably make anyone a little grumpy.



Terry