I am looking for opinions.

How important is truing an action?

I have built several rifles, as a hobby. The latest two actions are a new Remington 700 and a new old stock Interarms Mark X. Neither action was blueprinted and both perform well. I did lap the lugs on both. I threaded and chambered both barrels.

The lathe I have is a South Bend 13" from about 1960. It is well used. I am afraid of making an action worse, rather than better. A newer lathe is not a possibility at this time.

Is blueprinting overrated or did I get lucky?

I guess it is important based on what you require from the rifle. Target, hunting, competition? Since you are re-barreling receivers why not go ahead and square the receiver face? Don't forget to check the recoil lug for uniformity too. Good barrel, good chamber, square contact surfaces and good bedding in a sturdy stock usually equal a fine shooting rifle.

By the time you’ve invested labor into fully blueprinting an action you are well on your way to just getting one of the “custom” actions that are built to a finer tolerance. If you ever sale a blueprinted rem 700 you will not see any of your initial investment in blueprinting. The “custom” action will have a higher resale value percentage, and is more desirable.

For most hunting applications; a waste of time. Easy to check face true and lug bearing but beyond that, I wouldn't bother. Now, for a bench or target rifle, different story but as stated, then just get a specialized action in the first place.

The benchrest gunsmith teaching at Trinidad blueprinted every action. He showed us some high- end custom actions and ran indicators over them showing that they weren't always square. Though as Aaron says, they're usually pretty square and they're worth more on resale.

Mostly I don't think you'll hurt the performance by blueprinting. But a hunting rifle has all sorts of compromises for weight and looks. I read about a guy who had a rifle shoot a pet load worse after blueprinting. Don't know who did it or if it was done well. But I think you have a skinny barrel with a potentially shifting wood stock and maybe a barrel band or who knows what else on a non-benchrest rifle. So you may just change harmonics of the barrel or something and it could shoot some load worse that when it was not square I suppose.

On the other hand, a guy had me remove a scope mount with epoxied in screws. I checked headspace, and it swallowed the No Go gauge. So I took the shoulder back a few thousandths. The guy shot only factory ammo, and he said it was suddenly a one holer, where it'd been shooting about 1.5 to 2 MOA for him previously.

Don't think it'll hurt it to blueprint the action. But probably not absolutely necessary either.

Generally speaking and this applies more to some rifles than others. But unless you are trying to shoot under .5moa it’s really not needed. Most factory barreled actions with a tuned load can hold .5moa give or take and obviously caliber dependent.
This assumes a good scope and mount, a properly fit stock, a good trigger, and a good shooter.

Thank you for the responses!

My shooting is mostly casual target and occasional hunting. Both rifles will hold 1/2 minute of angle at 100 yards, sometimes a little better. Load development is ongoing.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Generally speaking and this applies more to some rifles than others. But unless you are trying to shoot under .5moa it’s really not needed. Most factory barreled actions with a tuned load can hold .5moa give or take and obviously caliber dependent.
This assumes a good scope and mount, a properly fit stock, a good trigger, and a good shooter.

It’s always seems more like .75 moa 3-shot groups on a typical big game hunting rig for me, using controlled expansion hunting bullets, in an 8ish lb w/scope for 270, 30-06, 300, 338, 375, 416, etc (Okay the 416 is 9ish). A varmint rig or long range hunting rifle I usually get under half moa. I find that holds for factory or custom barrels.

However, I don’t get really serious about the nth degree of accuracy in a hunting rifle. I do in my LR BR rifles. When I get my lathe up and running I guess I’ll have to see how true my Bat SV action is.

quote:

Originally posted by INTJ:

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Generally speaking and this applies more to some rifles than others. But unless you are trying to shoot under .5moa it’s really not needed. Most factory barreled actions with a tuned load can hold .5moa give or take and obviously caliber dependent.
This assumes a good scope and mount, a properly fit stock, a good trigger, and a good shooter.

It’s always seems more like .75 moa 3-shot groups on a typical big game hunting rig for me, using controlled expansion hunting bullets, in an 8ish lb w/scope for 270, 30-06, 300, 338, 375, 416, etc (Okay the 416 is 9ish). A varmint rig or long range hunting rifle I usually get under half moa. I find that holds for factory or custom barrels.

However, I don’t get really serious about the nth degree of accuracy in a hunting rifle. I do in my LR BR rifles. When I get my lathe up and running I guess I’ll have to see how true my Bat SV action is.

And that is the key.

1. Knowing what you want in accuracy
2. Realizing what you are going to get based on how the rifle is built and the load selected.
3. understanding your personal skill level.

If three realistic answers could be given things would be much easier.

I have a old 7x57 with a super thin barrel. it's not bedded and has a lesser known but decent trigger. it shoots 1-1.5" groups as to be expected.
I'm building a .416 Rigby with express sights and if it holds a 5" group to 250 yards I'll be happy.

That said my LR F Class rifle had better stick all five rounds through one ragged hole at 100 yards.

You are doing this yourself? Done well it certainly can't hurt anything and when it's my time I want to make sure everything is done as well as I can do it. If your machine is accurate enough to cut good threads it is certainly accurate enough to square up the action face at least. Get good ground recoil lugs, much better than factory, and have fun. I usually learn something on every one I do.


.

If any action is demonstrably flawed, there is good reason to correct whatever shortcomings may exist. As far as accuracy is concerned, it is often a bit of a crapshoot and truing up an action is just a way of, hopefully, eliminating some variables. Often, the "blueprinting" of an action accomplishes nothing as far as accuracy potential is concerned. I have used some actions, for hunting rifles, where the first step was to set them on a lead block and hit them with a hammerto straighten them out. The rifle still worked out well. I have had some rifles which I built on factory actions, untouched, which were splendid performers. I have also had rifles, based on custom actions which were demonstrably perfect, which were mediocre at best. I have come to believe that the longer I live and the more I do, the less I know. Regards, Bill

Scoty, you will blue print your action. It is unavoidable. You have the equipment, the skill and, as evident from the fact that you have asked the question, somewhat obsessive tendencies that will not let you rest. They come with the territory and will only get worse! Don't fight it!

You have all given me much to think about. I think gwahir has nailed it. My projects are learning experiences, I will have to true an action, just to see if I can.

Thanks again!

If it ain't broke you can't fix it, but you can screw up something that worked just fine in the 1st place.

Don't forget, MOST 98 Mausers have the inner collar that abuts the barrel , not the outer receiver face UNLESS that's the way you decide to do it

Scoty,

The best explanation of truing and action, that I've seen, is in "Centrefire Rifle Accuracy - Creating and Maintaining it" by Bill Hambly Clark.

Try him at blackduckpublishing.com.au

I don't quite get how you could blueprint an action if the dimensions were beyond fixing. What if too much metal has already been removed in certain places?

Just had Jim Kobe build me a 240 weatherby on a SS Rem 700. He lapped lugs, squared bolt face, recut the threads.
Have shot it about 60 times. Getting some five shot groups about 5/8”.
Would it have shot that well without the extra machine work, we will never know.
But my philosophy has been “if you are going custom barrel, stock etc, spend the money and maximize the accuracy potential.

Hello Sambarman:

"Blueprinting" is really a misnomer for the very reason you suggested. More appropriate would be action "truing".

The idea is to re-machine mating/locating surfaces of the action and barrel so that all components are square and concentric, and thereby react consistently when the rifle is fired. Does this guarantee improved accuracy? Not by itself because other components of the system are in play--including the shooter--and can muck up an otherwise good job.

All else being equal, truing a barrel/action assembly simply means it's more likely to produce higher levels of accuracy because the component parts mate--and react to stresses during firing-- more consistently.

Remember, most of our "accurizing procedures" were inherited from benchrest competition, in which they've been proven to help in the quest for smallest group size.

Dave Manson

quote:

Originally posted by DManson:
Hello Sambarman:

"Blueprinting" is really a misnomer for the very reason you suggested. More appropriate would be action "truing".

The idea is to re-machine mating/locating surfaces of the action and barrel so that all components are square and concentric, and thereby react consistently when the rifle is fired. Does this guarantee improved accuracy? Not by itself because other components of the system are in play--including the shooter--and can muck up an otherwise good job.

All else being equal, truing a barrel/action assembly simply means it's more likely to produce higher levels of accuracy because the component parts mate--and react to stresses during firing-- more consistently.

Remember, most of our "accurizing procedures" were inherited from benchrest competition, in which they've been proven to help in the quest for smallest group size.

Dave Manson

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^

Very well said Mr Manson.

Thanks Dave, having the barrel properly in line with the action may be even more important than many realise.

Had American rifles of the 1950s been more like the more-modern Finnish rifles I have, the decadence of constantly centred reticles may never have caught on. (Heap coals here: )