I recently completed a Mauser 98 project in 458 Win Mag. About 1 in 5 shots misfires. I thought the firing pin was hanging up inside the bolt, so I polished any rough spots out. But still having misfires. I'm about going crazy.

This may be completely irrelivent, but the cartridges loaded from the right side of the magazine have a greater tendency to misfire. Those loaded from the left side always fire. Both sides of the magazine feed well, so I'm not sure if this is just coincedence or what.

When the shot misfires, the primer is being only lightly hit.

If you want to develop a flinch, expect the 458 to go boom and then nothing happens, wow. I'm getting pretty jerky with this rifle.

Anyway, I'm thinking about replacing the firing pin and spring. Your thoughts and suggestions would be very helpfull.

Thank you,
BigBullet

[ 08-08-2003, 17:41: Message edited by: BigBullet ]

If I remember correctly the firing pin protrusion for a M98 is .051, you might check that just to make sure. Make certain that there is no grease on the pin embedded between the spring coils.
A couple of places to start looking.

Doug,

Thanks for your reply. If I take the spring off, the firing pin will protrude through the hole quite easily. I have degreased the entire spring firing pin area, there was some minor crude there initially. But I believe that to be good and clean now. I have shot the rifle since then and am still experiencing misfires. Is there a right way or wrong way for the spring? I have worked a lot on the M98's but have never experienced this before.

BigBullet

BigBullet

Are you sure the headspace is correct. It sounds like the only thing holding the cartridge against the bolt face is the extractor and maybe not all the time. Check to see if the cartridge rim engages the extractor correctly all the time.

Jim

Headspace will do it as well as belts that are not within spec.

You can measure the belt dimension on the cases with a caliper. It should be .220" thru .228" and some brass is not to these dimensions.

Make a "headspace gage" by soldering a small piece of soft solder on the upper part of a belt and then file it so it will chamber. The chamber dimension is .220" thru .227"

John Ricks made an informative post here on the variances in belted brass and it's worth searching out.

[ 08-08-2003, 20:44: Message edited by: Savage 99 ]

Jim Kobe, Savage 99,

Thanks for your suggestions. I will measure the belt thicknesses on the fired brass and see what it looks like. I will also try the headspace idea with the wire soldier. Sounds good. Hope its not over! That would be a mess! I cannot load the rifle without putting the cartridge into the magazine first. The extractor will not slip over the rim when you load the cartridge directly into the chamber.

I'm crossing my fingers for some bad brass.

BigBullet

Savage 99,

We are talking about the distance from the bottom rim of the case to the top of the belt, right? If this is the dimension we are talking about, which would be the critical headspace dimension, I'm getting a measurements of 0.212" - 0.216" after checking the whole box. Nothing close to the specified dimension. The brass is Federal Premium Safari, nickel plated stuff. Sounds like the brass is a bit short. Think this might be the problem?

You would think for $48.00 a box they could get it right.

Thanks

BigBullet

[ 08-09-2003, 02:20: Message edited by: BigBullet ]

Big Bullet,

The dimensions that you found sound typical however I am "on the road" and cannot check a case just now. Since that's what is expected it's just part of the problem if indeed it's headspace at all.

Now solder a spot on a case and see what it crushes out to.

The fact that the extractor will not grab except while being magazine fed makes headspace seem to be the problem.

By the way you don't need to fire loaded ammo to test the firing pin. You could reload some brass with just primers and shoot them in the basement.

How deep are the primers seated by the way on the loaded ammo?

Replace the firing pin spring. Check the firing pin extension. M98's WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO FEED EXCEPT FROM THE MAGAZINE so don't expect it to do a snap over! I doubt its the cartridges. It is possible that whoever put your gun together headspaced it improperly. Try a go/no go guage.-Rob

Lets see, I was the one who chambered this rifle. Though this is my first attempt at a 458 Win Mag, I've completed 14 rifles prior to this without the misfire mishap. The bolt will not close on the no-go gage. The no-go gage dimension is 0.220".

The firing pin protrusion is 0.0555". I think this is the problem and will give it another 0.005" of protrusion. On the misfires, the primer is just barely touched. So I'm thinking that this is problem. Doing the math, if I have a chamber of 0.219" and some of the brass has dimensions of 0.212",firing pin protrusion of 0.0555", I'm still alittle short.

I realize that there are only a certain number of things that can go wrong on a M98 action(the beauty is in the simplicity)but if you have any ideas or comments, I sure would appreciate them.

BigBullet

Big Bullet,

Had the same problem with a mauser project. The cause was the bolt not fully closing. I had not relieved enough wood and metal to allow the modified bolt handle to fully close. This resulted in one in about every three rounds not firing. Good luck

BeMan

Big Bullet, Last 2 posts had good advice. Combine them. Take bbld action out of stock and fire primers only. Well, or attempt to do so. You might also check for a bent Fire pin. Fire pin assembly should thread in easily into bolt without drag. Felt tip marker the spring collar on the F.Pin re thread in bolt try it remove and check for drag marks, remember where they are (if) .Rotate bolt sleeve in relation to pin ,remembering Al Gores comments -What was up is down- try again. If marks such as they might be are in same clock dial location as before the rotation of sleeve,must not be the pin.
Don't throw away your headspace gage. Very old specs. Rem. .216 go, .220 no go, Win was .220 & .224. Difference is how reamer and gage makers read the prints. Rem. chambers followed Win rather closely.. Difference was in the case body to belt. Rem specs allowed for a radius at end of the body diameter at the belt counterbore to prevent brass shaving in the chamber. As a practicality over a technicality Rem. 216 equalled the Win .220, and the British .219, too.
The big flap on the .228 dimension that the late Roy Dunlap got going 20 some odd years ago, was more of the same. It takes some high order math/ Statistical analysis to see it from the idiot prints out there, But if you make them all .220 you are doing it right.

Thank you for your recommendations guys. I hate to admit this(you'll think I'm a complete idiot), but the bolt handle was in fact touching the stock and needed further relief. I thought I had that all taken care of. I also increased the firing pin protrusion by 0.005".

I have tried shoting just primed cartrigdes and they are firing every time now. Range session next wednesday or thurday will be the test. I'll let you know how I make out. Speaking of firing empty cartridges, I've read numerous times that a DG rifle must be able to feed empties into the chamber as a measure of smooth feeding.

Anyone have recommendations on improving the feeding? I have relieved the forward right rail which was required, but overall feeding from that right position could be smoother.

BigBullet

I'm interested to know what method you used to lengthen the firing pin protrusion on your M98. The bolt handle not being closed all the way will
cause the cam on the firing pin to drag on the mating surface in the bolt body because their out of alignment with each other. Locking lugs wern't totally engaged if the bolt wasn't fully closed.
A safety feature in the M98.

[ 08-10-2003, 18:30: Message edited by: D Humbarger ]

This thread is an example of how hard it is to figure things out for someone.

As to the feeding of empties from the mag I would forget it. I do it of course when checking a FL die setting but if the loaded cartridge feeds all of the time then I would ignore the empty feeding situation and leave it alone.

You could make up a half dozen inert rounds and practice rapid bolt operation and magazine reloading. I should take my own advice on that!

Having experienced similar problems with a 35 Whelen after it had the bolt handle modified I am with Beman.

I found that the collar that sit inside the shroud was dragging through the groove in teh receiver (sorry don't know the proper names)

By usiing some permablue on the surfaces I could see where it was dragging. I did a slight polish with a dremel which cleaned it up (and it is now fine)

D. Humburger,

The way that I increased the firing pin protrusion was to gently file( then stone) at the flat of the cocking piece where it contacts the bolt sleeve. By shortening the cocking piece you lengthen the firing pin protrusion by allowing it to travel futher forward.

BigBullet