This is just a question about manufacturing processes.

Of the three most common methods of manufacturing bolt actions.

Investment casting
Machined from forgings
Machined from billet

Why is the investment casting method of manufacturing gun actions so frowned upon?
This is not commenting or comparing the current actions being offered on the market. Just the process.
With modern metallurgy and heat treating, strength should not be a issue and the reduced ammount of machining would be a major cost savings. If the people making the action by this method took care with quality control the fit and finish could be as as good or better than fully machined actions.

Its just a shame that a person has to pay 2k + for a new mauser type action.

Best wishes to all
Steve

All three methods (properly done) are strong enough for the task of a receiver.....

Investment castings are poured from the same (almost) steel as used in the other processes but all castings have a tendency for porocity...or holes in the product!...Investment castings however usually have microscopic porocity as compared to sand castings that occasionally have holes in the product the size of 3/8 dia ball bearings!!!!

The word castings is a swearword historically in the gun business as it's associated with cast iron!.....this is simply not true with investment castings....they are excellent castings poured with 4140 steelor any steel you want! Investment castings are less costly as they dramatically reduce machining but in doing so often leaves cast surfaces that aren't machined for economics reasons....they can be less smooth!

Forgings have the grain structure forced into a mold and the grains are bent to fit and this causes them to actually be stronger than the original metal. Supposedly this process is favorable.....but frankly is overkill!!! The additional strength gives one a warm fuzzy feeling but does nothing as it is more than required for the task at hand.

Machining from billet (Remington actions are this way.....except they do so from seamless tubing custom made for them) really is a fine way to go as it's extremely strong and has easy finishing because it's all machined. I suspect many of the hi-dollar Mausers today are totally machined from bar stock (billet).

In short....the differences are emotional in terms of strength (even though some are stronger than others) and occasionally variances in smoothness..........

I don't have a personal love for any process over the other....but many do when they shell out $6,000 for a custom rifle.....and for God's sake don't install an Abbott and Bennett barrel regardless of how darn accurate it is!!!

Remingtons are NOT made from "seamless tubing", but rather a solid billet of steel. Rugers as well as Farleys and the no longer made Shilen DGA actions were cast. Anyone who has owned and shot a DGA or a Farley will attest to their quality and strength.

quote:

Remingtons are NOT made from "seamless tubing",

I'll accept your word on it.....I passed on second hand information on that point!

vapodog
You said my thoughts on the subject.
I'm not a expert on investment casting but I do know one can achieve a fine finish with a ceramic shell if care is taken.

Quality control is everything regardless of the product whether its taxidermy or gun actions.

Thanks for replying

I used to work for a Colonel who had a big poster behind his desk at PACAF HQ that read "Perception is more important than fact." I'm pretty sure that applies to your question here.

I ame quite sure, that if one should starte producing medium-high quality actions today, I would choose to produce from bar.
Today's mashinery, is capable of producing recievers, unmanned, from bar, to completly finished ready for nitrationhardening and vibrationpolishing in less than 30 min. Then you dont need to invest in expencive moulds. Just a multitask mashine and a little brainexercice, and you are off.

You dont have to rely on more or less motivated employed, moving actions around betwen several diferent fictures, with posibilities of misalignments, and poor zeeroing.

Investmentcasting, and forging, is in my opinion, the teknique of the last millennium

jogen

What you say is true but have you priced the cnc machinery lately? I have not spent a lot of time looking at prices of this type of equipment but what I have seen they are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. For the numbers of actions that one may sell in this specialty market it wold be difficult to ever break even because of the cost of the machinery.
This is just a guess on how many one could sell but its maybe a hundred or so actions. Does this sound about the right amount?

quote:

Originally posted by Wildlife Artist:
jogen

What you say is true but have you priced the cnc machinery lately? I have not spent a lot of time looking at prices of this type of equipment but what I have seen they are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. For the numbers of actions that one may sell in this specialty market it wold be difficult to ever break even because of the cost of the machinery.
This is just a guess on how many one could sell but its maybe a hundred or so actions. Does this sound about the right amount?

Yes i have priced them lately, We have at the moment 3 standing running 24hrs shifts, and still not capable of keeping up with demands That way each mashine, has payed itself within 18 month.producing 100$ actions.
As far as i can se, it is the only way of the west to compeet with the chineese.

Thanks jogen

I'm very glad to hear you are doing so well I wish I could see your operation. Do you have a website?

I have always had a obsession of how things are made. I guess it comes from being a taxidermist and seeing animal bodies and studying them from the inside out to see what makes them work.