I have been thinking about this one for a little while. Can you turn a .45 colt Vaqureo into a .454 Casull? and they only real problems that I see is the oal of the cartridge and the pressure of the Casull. the cartridge is basically the same other than the oal and the level of pressure the case can handle. Now I called Ruger and they would not give me any info on this, (I couldn't imagine why...As the gun blows my hands and face off.) But they did say that the Super Red Hawk and the Vaquero cylinder's are cut from the same piece of steel and has the same strength and the frame is also the same strength as well. So can this be done? Give me your input, and around June of this year when I plan on getting my Vaquero I guess we'll see. I plan on getting some .454 brass and working up to factory velocity's. Anybody Know of a good Insurance company.
Kerry

------------------
If you can't hunt, fish. If you can't fish, Hunt

I just read an article on a Phillips & Rodgers 5-shot 45 Colt Bisley conversion. The author had the same idea, and though Phillips & Rodgers don't chamber for 454 Casull, he talked them into cutting the 45 Colt chambers "extra long". As I recall, the OAL with most bullets was too long for the cylinder. With cast bullets, I think you could get the same results using 45 Colt brass with the bullets seated long.

If I can track down a copy of the article, I'll send it your way.

[This message has been edited by Cannon (edited 01-04-2002).]

Kerry S.,
I, like you, am waiting and wishing for the day Ruger will offer a single action .454 Casull. Preferably a Bisley. That said, what you are asking can be done, sort of. Many custom builders use Ruger frames as the basis for .45 magnum and .454 Casull conversions using larger 5 shot cylinders fitted to the frame, along with other necessary modifications. I don't think that you will find a competent smith who will lengthen the chambers of a factory .45 colt to accomodate the .454 Casull. And if you do find one... stay away from that person as they are probably of questionable judgement. Your best options are a SuperRedhawk, Taurus Raging Bull, Freedom Arms M-83, or one of the custom Ruger conversions. The latter two cost about the same when all is said and done. On an ongoing basis I struggle with the thought of sending my Bisley .45 colt to Hamilton Bowen to do a five shot conversion. I haven't completely disuaded myself yet. However, I can tell you from experience that from a stock ruger six shooter that you can safely push a 335 gr. hard cast to 1300 fps from a 7-1/2" barrel. No North American animal fairly hit can withstand this. As for trying to duplicate .454 Casull performance from your stock Vaquero just remember that it is your shooting hand to lose and no one else's.

Check out this website for some more info or give them a call for a staight answer.

www.bowenclassicarms.com

[This message has been edited by DavidReed (edited 01-04-2002).]

David
Well that's true about it being my hand to blow off.

If I do it I'll lengthen the chambers myself. Being a machinist I'll have access to all the tooling and machines I'll need. I need to do some mesuring to see if everything will fit but if the gun can handle the pressure I'll do it. I just find it strange that Ruger said the cylinder is the same strength as the Red Hawk and they don't offer it. But this tells me it should work.
cannon I'll keep an eye out for the article, Thanks

Kerry

------------------
If you can't hunt, fish. If you can't fish, Hunt

Kerry,

The Vaquero cylinder may be made from the same 410 stainless steel as the 44 Mag SRH, but it is definitely NOT the same as the new 454 and 480 SRH's -- Ruger went with a new alloy for those two specifically because 410 wasn't strong enough for a 6-shot Casull.

I found the article; I'll email it to you. It's in HTML format so you'll need to open it in your web browser to view it.

[This message has been edited by Cannon (edited 01-04-2002).]

I new I was concernd for a reason. It only makes sense being that the casull is 65,000 psi. I must have gotten someone a Ruger that didn't know all the details. You don't happen to know the alloy do you?
Thanks For the article
Kerry

------------------
If you can't hunt, fish. If you can't fish, Hunt

What about Freedom Arms? Don't they make the Casull? I realize its alot more money, but if your gonna keep it what the hell.

JMO

I'd rather spend $1800.00 on a few firearms then just one. This was the reason for converting a $450.00 Ruger. It leaves a little in the pocket book when your done.
Kerry

Kerry,

If you fit an oversize 5 shot cylinder, then the bisley can handle 454 pressures. The std 6 shot cylinder, no way! The 6 shot 45 colt Ruger is rated at 32-35 kpsi loads, 454 loads are pushing 60 kpsi. To say it is unwise to bore out the 45 colt cylinders is an understatement!!!

I believe if you check the sixgunner archives, you'll see a picture of a 6 shooter 45 colt ruger that had a 5 shooter 45 colt load slipped in it, it blew the cylinder and the top strap off the gun.

Well then I guess I'll load it to .44mag pressure and keep it a six shot and in one piece. Then later on down the road I'll get .454 casull. Thanks everybody.
Cannon If you could find out what type of stainless Ruger uses on there Casull I'd appreciate it
Kerry

------------------
If you can't hunt, fish. If you can't fish, Hunt

Kerry.S,
I don't know the exact composition of the alloy Ruger uses for the .454 and .480 SRH Cylinders. However, I remember an article a few monthes back in on of the Industry trade mags my gunsmith had. The alloy was developed specifically for Ruger and they own the sole rights to use this alloy. Also according to this article each cylinder is proofed to 70,000 psi before it leaves the Ruger factory!
Also, if you don't already have a copy, get your hands on a copy of Handloader No. 205, June 2000. In this issue Ross Seyfried wrote an article on elevating .45 colt performance to that of .44 mag and .454 Casull levels in Ruger revolvers. You may find it useful.

Kerry,

I found a copy of the article David's referring to. I'll email it to you, but here's a short excerpt:

quote:

---

Doubly concerned about strength and throat slamming, Ruger engineers quickly ruled out 410 stainless steel despite its strong track record on Ruger's smaller revolvers. . . . The designers next considered conventional 15Cr-5Ni stainless steel (15-5), which met all the design requirements but one. "It was a bear to machine," . . . Ruger ultimately met its design and productivity goals with Project 7000, a 15Cr-5N stainless designed specifically for machinability.

---

Cannon,
Would you e-mail me a copy of that article as well? As I would enjoy reading it again. If you find the time I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,

David Schnabel

Cannon Thanks for the artical And the info on the steel. Ruger is right on about 15-5 being hard to machine. That stuff is right up there with tiatanium invar and Pre hardend P-20 but it is availible with sulfer and that makes it much easier to machine.
Like I said, Now I'm not sure if I want to push it to that level I will probably just load some very hot .45 colt loads in .454 brass and small rifle primers to contain the pressure.
Thanks Kerry

------------------
If you can't hunt, fish. If you can't fish, Hunt

David (and anyone else interested in the article),

I finally tracked down the original Design News article at the publisher's website:

Big Guns Need Strong Steel

Maby you should pick up a t/c contender with a .45colt/.410 barrel and leave your vaquero alone.You'd be able to load stuff that comes very close to the casull,,,,,If you really want to think about how you're gonna hang on to it,instead of hitting what you want to. I have both guns,Play with the vaquero at the range,Feed spent brass through the t/c Loaded with 8.5 gr universal clays with a 250 gr hardcast bullet,,,use a win.large rifle primer,,,,,Knocks deer flat @40 yds,cuts 1.5"groups @50 yds.And keep a couple bucks in your pocket vs. buying a freedom arms.

Loading a contender 45 colt up to 454 casull pressures is a very bad idea, due to back thrust stretching the frame. You are best advised to load 45 colt contenders to +P or Ruger pressures, and no higher!

I agree with you on on your post paul,,But you can come within 200fps of the .454 with a ruger/tc action,,,,,,if you really feel the need.This according to hornady.I tried a batch of 5,300gr hp.backed up by 20gr.of 296,That is the only batch I'll ever make, too much of everything.The load I listed Was from handloader magazine,accurate,mild recoil,and very deadly on whitetails within 50yds. They also stated not to run this load through colt saa's or copys.