Well I was looking closely at the barrel on my new Ruger M77MKII (blued, not stainless) to see how much more copper I had to remove (it copper fouls bad, and after 200 total rounds isn't improving) last night after a range session. I noticed a regular series of tiny lines in the lands. They are (eyeballing) about 1mm apart and span most of the width of the grooves. They are distinct enough to feel with a very sharp scribe, but only a very sharp one. They are consistent as far up the bore as I can see.

Is this normal or common? The rifle gives just okay accuracy. After pillar bedding and floating I'm getting 1-1.5" accuracy with Sierra Gamekings, so I really can't complain too much, but the copper fouling is really bad. I'm wondering if I need to have Ruger take a looksie at it...it sure doesn't 'feel' right to me but I'm far from an expert on such matters!

No its not normal, PM me and I'll get you some more info.

Here's the best I was able to get with my camera after 2 daysa of cleaning copper...look at the area circled. The light band down the middle of the groove is actually the series of micro lines running across (basically parallel to the crown) the groove. Look closely. I need to figure a way to get them into higher relief...



Highlighting the area of concern.

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:
Well I was looking closely at the barrel on my new Ruger M77MKII (blued, not stainless) to see how much more copper I had to remove (it copper fouls bad, and after 200 total rounds isn't improving) last night after a range session. I noticed a regular series of tiny lines in the lands. They are (eyeballing) about 1mm apart and span most of the width of the grooves. They are distinct enough to feel with a very sharp scribe, but only a very sharp one. They are consistent as far up the bore as I can see.

Is this normal or common? The rifle gives just okay accuracy. After pillar bedding and floating I'm getting 1-1.5" accuracy with Sierra Gamekings, so I really can't complain too much, but the copper fouling is really bad. I'm wondering if I need to have Ruger take a looksie at it...it sure doesn't 'feel' right to me but I'm far from an expert on such matters!

It is most likly reamermarks from drilling or reaming, before hammerforging.
It apears that sometime brand new barrels looks perfect, and werry shiny, but after 50-200 rds the phenomen you describe apears, and give you major problems with fouling, because the initial flattened reamermarks opne up and works as a file

Why not pick up the phone and talk with Ruger about it. Ship it back and let them have a look. If they won't do anything then you might consider having the barrel lapped. Personally I would call it a blessing and if I were intent on keeping it, then I would rebarrel it.

Malm, I'm afraid that if I ship it back to Ruger they are not going to return my pillar bedded stock. I spent too much of my own sweat getting those damn pillars installed to have them charge me to not return them...and from everything I read and hear, they will not return anythign that is not still factory original!

I may try to firelap them out, but a full rebarrel is out of the budget range at the moment...too many other unforseen bills to get through at the moment...

Jorgen, yeah, that's pretty much my problem. Besides so-so and quickly declining accuracy, fouling is terrible. A single 20 round session will have me working 2 days to get the copper out with Sweets and Hoppes. Not fun!

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:
Malm, I'm afraid that if I ship it back to Ruger they are not going to return my pillar bedded stock. I spent too much of my own sweat getting those damn pillars installed to have them charge me to not return them...and from everything I read and hear, they will not return anythign that is not still factory original!

I may try to firelap them out, but a full rebarrel is out of the budget range at the moment...too many other unforseen bills to get through at the moment...

Jorgen, yeah, that's pretty much my problem. Besides so-so and quickly declining accuracy, fouling is terrible. A single 20 round session will have me working 2 days to get the copper out with Sweets and Hoppes. Not fun!

I may be wrong, but I think Rugers policies are only towards mechanical alterations. I don't think these would apply to pillars. For instance they seem to have no problem with stocks that have decent recoil pads installed, or, have been floated. I would email their customer service and get this specific concern addressed in writing. And then document it in your accompanying letter and photo's.

CDH, Instead of wearing yourself out cleaning out copper with Sweet's and Hoppes, try using foul out. You just squirt it in and let it work. I tried the Sweet's and Hoppe's method for years and now will never go back.....................DJ

malm:
Unless they have changed, I have to disagree with you. I wanted to send back a RSM in 416 Rigby that wouldn't feed. I had put a new ebony forend tip on, and a new recoil pad. The service "manager" I talked to said that that was the cause of the feeding problems. They would not work on the gun until I agreed to buy a new stock from them for around $500, and they wouldn't send my old stock back if I sent it to them. If I sent them a barreled action, they still wouldn't work on it until I agreed to buy the new stock. I took it to a local smith and got it done right.
Oh, and by the way, when I first talked to the person about the problem she said it was due to use of an aftermarket magazine......I said I didn't think there was such a thing...her reply was, and I quote, "There are aftermarket magazines for every Ruger firearm manufactured."
Still looking for the one that will fit my Blackhawk!

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
I would email their customer service and get this specific concern addressed in writing. And then document it in your accompanying letter and photo's.

I have had no luck finding an email address for their customer service. Perhaps you have access to one as a 'smith, but it doesn't seem to be publically available.

I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row before opening a customer service inquiry...I was wondering if sending them the barrelled action was an option...and that looks unlikely now too! Ugh...

Take it to your smith and have him lap the bore. Costs about $65.00

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
I would email their customer service and get this specific concern addressed in writing. And then document it in your accompanying letter and photo's.

I have had no luck finding an email address for their customer service. Perhaps you have access to one as a 'smith, but it doesn't seem to be publically available.

I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row before opening a customer service inquiry...I was wondering if sending them the barrelled action was an option...and that looks unlikely now too! Ugh...

I have a customer who had returned a bedded and floated rifle for some warranty work and they returned the rifle in the same stock. So I don't know. Maybe it depends on who receives the rifle at Ruger and if they ate breakfast that day. Nothing would surprise me about Ruger though.

Anyway, Apparently they don't have email service but I did get you the direct number to their customer service at the Newport, NH plant which handles the 77 Mark II. It is 603-865-2442. The operator couldn't answer my question and the plant is now closed for the day. Call them Monday but be prepared for a wait. Good luck.

I've got on in '06 just like it. It has shot about 3000 rounds and most of those very well. Still shoots better than many do. I contacted Ruger when I first got it and shot it, seeing the copper fill up the bore and the 3 day cleaning deal. They said send it in and they would look it over. I told them I would do that when it quit shooting 1/2" groups. That was 1992. It is up to an inch or so now and has had way too much JB bore paste and solvents I suppose. Still puts that first shot right where it is supposed to be everytime, Plastic Boat paddle and All.