quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jørgen:

With all due respect Jorgen you must have never seen a Contender/Encore. They are actually quite well made quality firearms. The Multi-barrel/caliber ability seems to me to be just the kind of thing Europeans would love. DJ

A friend of mine in Germany ,who cruses this forum occasionally, THINKS U R RIGHT! I think Jorgen just let his mouth over ride his Gehinderpart. roger

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
I think that the Sako and Tikka where the barrel blew up, is mainly because that they tried to plesae the american marked, forcing them into using Tubberware stocks, and most dangerosly that soft and brittle rustinhibited automat steel that is sold as SS

Acording to the mentioned companyes rebuilding M98 actions, they make nice work, but those rifles is sold to people that look at them as investments, and practcaly newer use them.
None of them you mentioned produce enough to have any importance.

Wow! What an objective response! When a European gunmaker screws up, it is due to an evil American influence!

If the number of guns concerned is a criterion, Marlin makes more than all the gunmakers you talked about put together. And none has ever blown up. Next, you'll be saying that this is because Marlins are European inspired. And, on numbers again, what number of consequence do Blaser and Strasser produce?

Something to think about: Fanaticism consists of redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.
George Santayana

Grow up, Joergen. You're not making any sense.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
According to tomson center contender, the reason that there is sold so many of them, is because the price and lifetime is pretty mutch the sane as a bottle of milk

With all due respect Jorgen you must have never seen a Contender/Encore. They are actually quite well made quality firearms. The Multi-barrel/caliber ability seems to me to be just the kind of thing Europeans would love. They aren't my particualar favorite but they are really nice interesting firearms............DJ

Not to ofend Tompson Center. They maybe make value for money rifles, (or whatever you call it) And as long it doesnt cost more than 100 or 200 buks, it is ok.
I have actualy seen som on several international shot shows, but i have never heard anyone refere to them as high quality.
I think the common evaluation is prety simple singleshot Rifle/ shotguns/ pistols, mainly sold because of low price

Jorgen, I've just got to think you aren't thinking about the correct firearm. These are the rifles I'm referring too:

http://www.tcarms.com/TC_HTML/TC_Enc.htm


They are definately not $100 or $200 firearms.
It's either that or you just have no idea what you are talking about...............DJ

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
[
Wow! What an objective response! When a European gunmaker screws up, it is due to an evil American influence!

If the number of guns concerned is a criterion, Marlin makes more than all the gunmakers you talked about put together. And none has ever blown up. Next, you'll be saying that this is because Marlins are European inspired. And, on numbers again, what number of consequence do Blaser and Strasser produce?

Something to think about: Fanaticism consists of redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.
George Santayana

Grow up, Joergen. You're not making any sense.

First i would try to explain, a litle seriusly to the generel reader, then if nececery, i can repeat it in slowmotion for Mehul, if it still doesnt make any sence
From this debate i have learned at least one weapon detail developed in US So called SS.

I dont say anything about evil american influence, I only said that Sako and Tikka in SS was primarily produced to please the american marked. I ame quite sure you also would be able to find pictures of of other brands with blown up SS fluted barrels.

Acording to production numbers, Ther has been produced over 100.000 Blaser rifles in the last 10 years. And the current production of Sako/ Tikka excedes 50.000 pr year.Sauer produces 12.000-20.000/year

Hartmann & Weiss produce/rebuild less than 100/year
Johansen and the other you mentioned would surprice me if they make more than 250-500/year together

About te Grow up remarks i chose to take it as a joke.
Because i ame an old man, who has handeled many thousind rifles of many makes over the last 30 years, and spend quite some time evaluating things as Engineering, quality, accuracy potential and safety evaluations on varius rifles

The quality evaluation expert who does not know what a Contender is and who cannot spell has spoken. All hail his genius!

Keep the slowmotion for yourself, old man, take care you don't break something and find some pictures of other brands with blown up. I am sure they would be a revelation to everyone. Take your time. Old age, after all, dulls the memory and judgement. It is difficult to do things fast when you're wheelchair bound.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

If you read betwen the lines, you wil se that i dont fancy all of the details bacicaly on the nr1 and nr2. But there is no doubt that they have looked into some details, who actualy improve accuracy quite a bit.

Acording to Sauer 200, they are wery nice and smooth rifles, but i agre on the doubt on there TD.
According to Schultz & Larsen, I ame quite sure that you have not seen or handeled any of the new ones, that are currently beeing produced. As they are not exported to USA, because of the stupid Lawyer practice over there, Witch make it legaly dangerys to sell rifles with a decent trigger. The rifles you have in that brand is most likely produced in the 60th and 70th, and is way diferent than the new once.

Actually, Jorgen, you are misled on some minor counts. First, I do NOT find the Sauers either smooth or particularly well made. I find them crude, clunky, and rather shoddily made for their cost. Cheaply made is probably a better descriptive term. I find the machining crude and not well finished in my opinion, and the tolerances greater than I care for. Sauer may SAY they are well made, but they are trying to sell them. What else do you expect them to say?

As to S&L rifles, it really does not matter whether they are shipped by the company to North America. If the company does not wholesale them here to NA retailers, that does not make them unobtainable here. Some of us have residences in more than one country. By obtaining a Form Six from the US BATFE for each rifle, it has been quite possible to bring in sporting rifles from virtually anywhere else, for personal use and not for resale, so long as one brings it in as part of his personal baggage as a returning U.S. citizen and does not go through the hassle of having it shipped by common carrier. Even the latter is possible, but in my opinion is a lot more trouble than the endeavor is worth.

I have done that with at least a hundred sporting rifles, so I speak from personal experience on that one.

It is apparent you are not intrested in the logic of the situation...you are apparently an EU patriot. I can respect that to a degree. But, blind patriotism is not always a good way to judge rifles. You like your modern wonders (which are rather rinky-dink to my view), and I like the older designs. That will likely not harm either of us, but it is not a sound rationale for some of your statments.

Albert is right about Sauer magazines. Drop a loaded one just right on a hard surface and base pops off.

Needless to say, bullets, springs and follower shoot everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Take your time. Old age, after all, dulls the memory and judgement. It is difficult to do things fast when you're wheelchair bound.

Hey! What's with the old age roger

All that fancy engineering on the European rifles mentioned doesn't make them work a bit better in the field. In fact I would submit they are over engineered and more likely to be a liability in the field.

I think our American equivalent is our ultra mags and short mags. New engineering for none existent problems.

Bartsche,

Touchy about old age comments, aren't you?

The reference was to this line in Joergen's post: "Because i ame an old man, who has handeled many thousind rifles ..."

Gosh, adjust your reading glasses and go through the posts. You won't get the drift of the discussion if you don't.

Specialy for you my "freind" Mehul. Sorry if i dont spell corectly, byt i can guaranty you, that i spell english better than you spell danish

If you look into the links below, i think you if taking it slowly, or maybe get someone to help you, will finde some eksamples


https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=565101864#565101864
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=857109764#857109764+
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...?r=95010775#95010775
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=766109543#766109543

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

If you read betwen the lines, you wil se that i dont fancy all of the details bacicaly on the nr1 and nr2. But there is no doubt that they have looked into some details, who actualy improve accuracy quite a bit.

Acording to Sauer 200, they are wery nice and smooth rifles, but i agre on the doubt on there TD.
According to Schultz & Larsen, I ame quite sure that you have not seen or handeled any of the new ones, that are currently beeing produced. As they are not exported to USA, because of the stupid Lawyer practice over there, Witch make it legaly dangerys to sell rifles with a decent trigger. The rifles you have in that brand is most likely produced in the 60th and 70th, and is way diferent than the new once.

Actually, Jorgen, you are misled on some minor counts. First, I do NOT find the Sauers either smooth or particularly well made. I find them crude, clunky, and rather shoddily made for their cost. Cheaply made is probably a better descriptive term. I find the machining crude and not well finished in my opinion, and the tolerances greater than I care for. Sauer may SAY they are well made, but they are trying to sell them. What else do you expect them to say?

As to S&L rifles, it really does not matter whether they are shipped by the company to North America. If the company does not wholesale them here to NA retailers, that does not make them unobtainable here. Some of us have residences in more than one country. By obtaining a Form Six from the US BATFE for each rifle, it has been quite possible to bring in sporting rifles from virtually anywhere else, for personal use and not for resale, so long as one brings it in as part of his personal baggage as a returning U.S. citizen and does not go through the hassle of having it shipped by common carrier. Even the latter is possible, but in my opinion is a lot more trouble than the endeavor is worth.

I have done that with at least a hundred sporting rifles, so I speak from personal experience on that one.

It is apparent you are not intrested in the logic of the situation...you are apparently an EU patriot. I can respect that to a degree. But, blind patriotism is not always a good way to judge rifles. You like your modern wonders (which are rather rinky-dink to my view), and I like the older designs. That will likely not harm either of us, but it is not a sound rationale for some of your statments.

I can ager on mutch of what you are saying, Yes on the sauer 200-202, ther are indications of poor tooling, below woodline. But that you also finds on highly finished and pretty well produced rifles like the Dakota

About patriotism, i ame not specialy EU patriotic, i just like to play the "devils lawryer" And i ame quite aware of some of the cons on some of the new european designs. My main idea is if you dont dare to bring up new ideas, and improve them along the way, you end up still driving around in horse pulled wagons Mutch like the american rifleindustry

BTW do you actualy have an S&L produced recently

I can inform you that my personal preference is a tightfitting FatBolt action with 3 lugs locking directly into the barrel(cutrifeled CroMo of cause)
One of the reasons i prefer the fatbolt, is because it gives me oportunities to anoy, stifminded Mauser and Rennington fans, when luering then into a bet over who is first ready to fiere 5 rounds fron an action, where i tossed in a handfull if fine dry sand on an closed action.
The result is always that after turning the fatbolt upside down and cyckle the bolt once, it is clean, and ready to use. 15 min later the mauser and remmy fans are still struggeling trying to get rid of the sand everywhere
Another reason for prefering 3 lugs, is that you are capable of repearting your rifle while it is still shouldered, even with a low mounted scope. Just ceping your shoulder still, and only mooving your hand

COO or COC, I don't give a tinkers cuss, they're all good servicable rifles.

So I now have a "friend" in the geriatric league. What an honour! And the friend is a linguist in one language, but cannot spell in any other. Considering that I speak, read and write eight languages, I guess I must feel inadequate and inferior to the world's top quality control expert who speaks and spells only Danish.

Polish your dentures, Joergen, and clean your eyeglasses properly. Feeblemindedness comes in with age and so does obnoxiousness. Think about the good old days, old man, don't get too frustrated by your inability to argue. Memory and logical faculties suffer when you're sitting in God's waiting room.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Bartsche,

Touchy about old age comments, aren't you?


Gosh, adjust your reading glasses and go through the posts. You won't get the drift of the discussion if you don't.

ARE YOU PUTTING ME ON? roger

No Jorgen, I do not have a new S&L, but it is not because I can't buy one in the U.S. It is because I didn't want to buy one after looking at a few. They are nice rifles, but not something which caught my fancy. (And, I decided to spend the money as part of putting a big highly modified V-8 engine, power train, and suspension in my Porsche...a guy can only fully fund so many hobbies, unless he is an oil sheik.)

I can appreciate your comments on the "fat bolts". I like them too, but in my case it is because they allow for designing actions which need not have machined bolt rails. So, when I am designing some of my experimental actions, I don't have to go through that hassle. They also allow for more internal action symmetry, which may or may not have a positive affect on both action stiffness and harmonics. I haven't made up my mind on whether that is a positive or not, but am fiddling around building some home-made BR actions on the premise that it will help...whether it does or not remains to be seen.

Anyway, I am sorry we don't see eye-to-eye on European vs. NA rifle products. I suspect it is partly because of the same reason I no longer buy the Mercedes SL's that I used to buy every other year. Excessive engineering which has no apparent purpose other than indulging one's self in playing with a CAD program is a game I find counter-productive and unsatisfying.

Trying to actually simplify an action and increase quality & function using traditional steel is much more satisfying to my tastes.

Best wishes,

AC

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
So I now have a "friend" in the geriatric league. What an honour! And the friend is a linguist in one language, but cannot spell in any other. Considering that I speak, read and write eight languages, I guess I must feel inadequate and inferior to the world's top quality control expert who speaks and spells only Danish.

Polish your dentures, Joergen, and clean your eyeglasses properly. Feeblemindedness comes in with age and so does obnoxiousness. Think about the good old days, old man, don't get too frustrated by your inability to argue. Memory and logical faculties suffer when you're sitting in God's waiting room.

Pretty amazing, first you question the posibility to find pictures of non european rifles that has blown up, then you gets 4 links from just one single forum.
You are aparently not capable of reading them.
I judt wonder how sad it must be to be able to speak and spell 8 diferent language, and understanding none what soewer.

As fare as i can se you hawent come up with anything of relevans in terms of something related to weapons
And if you are not capable of cumming up wiht anything of relevans concerning riflecunstruction an theories, i dont want to respond further to your remarks, because they remind me to mutch about kindergarden

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
No Jorgen, I do not have a new S&L, but it is not because I can't buy one in the U.S. It is because I didn't want to buy one after looking at a few. They are nice rifles, but not something which caught my fancy. (And, I decided to spend the money as part of putting a big highly modified V-8 engine, power train, and suspension in my Porsche...a guy can only fully fund so many hobbies, unless he is an oil sheik.)

I can appreciate your comments on the "fat bolts". I like them too, but in my case it is because they allow for designing actions which need not have machined bolt rails. So, when I am designing some of my experimental actions, I don't have to go through that hassle. They also allow for more internal action symmetry, which may or may not have a positive effect on both action stiffness and harmonics. I haven't made up my mind on whether that is a positive or not, but am fiddling around building some home-made BR actions on the premise that it will help...whether it does or not remains to be seen.

Anyway, I am sorry we don't see eye-to-eye on European vs. NA rifle products. I suspect it is partly because of the same reason I no longer buy the Mercedes SL's that I used to buy every other year. Excessive engineering which has no apparent purpose other than indulging one's self in playing with a CAD program is a game I find counter-productive and unsatisfying.

Trying to actually simplify an action and increase quality & function using traditional steel is much more satisfying to my tastes.

Best wishes,

AC

It seemes that on the buttomline we actualy agre.
I will send you a private message

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Excessive engineering which has no apparent purpose other than indulging one's self in playing with a CAD program is a game I find counter-productive and unsatisfying.

Trying to actually simplify an action and increase quality & function using traditional steel is much more satisfying to my tastes.
AC

Very well put. Nobody has yet explained how these "improvements" in the European rifles are really improvements rather then just differences.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
And the friend is a linguist in one language, but cannot spell in any other. Considering that I speak, read and write eight languages, I guess I must feel inadequate and inferior to the world's top quality control expert who speaks and spells only Danish.

Being able to speak, read and write is a rare gift indeed, I can barely manage to curse in 5. But in most cases what a person has to say is usually more important than how they say it.
I truly enjoy posting back and forth with our International guests whether we agree or disagree. I really hate the thought that they wouldn't contribute here just because they feel that their English skills are not as good as others.....................DJ

Gentlemen,

I have information that Joergen is NOT an independent commentator here. What he has not revealed (indeed, his marketing talk conceals this fact very effectively) is that he is an employee of the new Schulz and Larsen company.

All of his posts and boasts etc have been little more than sales talk. I challenge him to show that what I have said is not true. This is little more than sales talk masquerading as a discussion on quality.

If someone wants to accept this sales pitch, it is their right and previlege. If Joergen pretends to be an independent observer, his bluff deserves to be exposed. IMO his concealing his employment with a company that he has been talking about is a fraud in a discussion by people who are otherwise not associated in any official with any of the other companies being discussed here.

Keep up the sales talk, old man. When you pimp for Schulz and Larsen products anywhere, I shall be glad to inform whoever is taken in by your pitch as to who you really are.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Gentlemen,

1: I have information that Joergen is NOT an independent commentator here. What he has not revealed (indeed, his marketing talk conceals this fact very effectively) is that he is an employee of the new Schulz and Larsen company.

2: All of his posts and boasts etc have been little more than sales talk. I challenge him to show that what I have said is not true. This is little more than sales talk masquerading as a discussion on quality.

3: If someone wants to accept this sales pitch, it is their right and previlege. If Joergen pretends to be an independent observer, his bluff deserves to be exposed. IMO his concealing his employment with a company that he has been talking about is a fraud in a discussion by people who are otherwise not associated in any official with any of the other companies being discussed here.

4: Keep up the sales talk, old man. When you pimp for Schulz and Larsen products anywhere, I shall be glad to inform whoever is taken in by your pitch as to who you really are.

AQccording statemenr nr 1: It is partly correct, But i ame one of those that has to wait for payment until everyone else has been paid.
If anyone else than Mehul reads my posts i think it is dificult to find what is described as salestalk. Primarily because we dont have any interest in entering the american marked.
But i find it wery strange to understand why a person with a litle practical expierince should not be alowed to partitipate in a debate. General when debating on foras people with reasonable knowledgs of what they are debating, finds it positive to debate with people from the industry.

According to statement 2.
It is wery dificult to say that you are lying, since you havent said anything of relevans.
BTW i havent heard if you have ben able to read the 4 links in my previus post, and if you at least couldnt aknowledge the contents.

According to statement 3: I have never stated that i was independent, but i said that i had atleast some practical expierince in rebuilding and producing rifles. And i generaly talk positiv about colegues, that makes a desent job, and dont try to sell them for more than they are worth.

Aboyt statement 4: i feel sorry for you that you feel taken by my "pitch".
But that is the risk when people with less or no practical knowledge is braggin about ther "wisdon" on the internet, and then suddently is luered into exposing ther compleet nakedness

BTW her is a link, that indicates that i dont try to conseal my job, i just dont want to use thps site for marketing, thats wry i dont enter it in my profile.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=459102715#459102715

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
AQccording statemenr nr 1: It is partly correct, But i ame one of those that has to wait for payment until everyone else has been paid.

Sounds to me like you are an owner of some sort.

quote:

If anyone else than Mehul reads my posts i think it is dificult to find what is described as salestalk.

I think touting a product you are associated with is by definition sales.

quote:

It is wery dificult to say that you are lying, since you havent said anything of relevans.

Neither have you really. Just why and how are these "new" over engineered European rifles better

quote:

I think touting a product you are associated with is by definition sales.

As long as the product isnt intended to reach that marked, it is wery dificult to se the idea of salestalk, and if you read my replyes i mention colegues mutch more often, as positive excamples, That must then be completly stupid according to salestalk

quote:

Neither have you really. Just why and how are these "new" over engineered European rifles better

ewen i dont personaly like some of ther detaile, The Blaser 93 designs offers wery mutch better avarage accurasy, than 90% of other factoryrifles, Because of their fixing the barrel, and let the bolthead be light and frefloating, to eliminate barrelvibrations.
mutch of the same is the facht on the new merkel, with less negative details(MHO)
The Sauer 202 has also many briliant details, (easy switch barrelsystem, witch locks direct into the barrel, and modular koncept. You can get almost everything as stockitems, when ordering, and ½ hour later your dream is fulfilled)that the american industry surely will copy partly, when they stop fighting over who can make the simplest and cheapest rifle. That was what hapened in Europe 5-10 years ago, after a long period where ewerybody was trying to kill each other

Jorgen, First of all I hope you don't feel unwelcome here. I enjoy a good arguement and I hope you don't let all of the negatives keep you from continuing to post here.
Knowing your background helps me to know where you are coming from and what questions to ask, etc..
Personally I don't care if you were trying to sell Shultz and Larson rifles. If you think they are good why shouldn't you be allowed to say so.
Remington developed a barrel locking fat bolt called the 710. It basically is a cheap piece of Junk. I believe Kenny Jarrets action might be of the sort also. Jarrets is not a cheap peice of junk. I don't know if the fat bolts will ever catch on here quite as well in Europe if for no other reason than we like to have our local Gunsmiths change barrels every so often.
AR-15's are immensely popular here and they are basically a barrel locking design through the use of a barrel extension. Maybe a bolt-action that used an extension that could be more easily mated to a custom barrel would be more popular.
Sorry to hi-jack this thread, maybe I should start another on bolt locking systems, what do you think Jorgen?..................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Jorgen, First of all I hope you don't feel unwelcome here. I enjoy a good arguement and I hope you don't let all of the negatives keep you from continuing to post here.
Knowing your background helps me to know where you are coming from and what questions to ask, etc..
Personally I don't care if you were trying to sell Shultz and Larson rifles. If you think they are good why shouldn't you be allowed to say so.
Remington developed a barrel locking fat bolt called the 710. It basically is a cheap piece of Junk. I believe Kenny Jarrets action might be of the sort also. Jarrets is not a cheap peice of junk. I don't know if the fat bolts will ever catch on here quite as well in Europe if for no other reason than we like to have our local Gunsmiths change barrels every so often.
AR-15's are immensely popular here and they are basically a barrel locking design through the use of a barrel extension. Maybe a bolt-action that used an extension that could be more easily mated to a custom barrel would be more popular.
Sorry to hi-jack this thread, maybe I should start another on bolt locking systems, what do you think Jorgen?..................DJ

As long as the people that prefer to se my back, is people with limited knowledg,(despite their capability of just talking and writing negative BS in 8 languages) i and no will to learn , i think i'll survive
The fatbolt tread would be fine

And I would like to read anything Jorgen has to say about Shultz & Larson rifles.
How about a complete history.
Lets hear it for Jorgen.

What a fine, belated admission by a product pimp that he owns the Schulz ad Larsen company, after first starting with a nudge, nudge, wink, wink "Have you seen a new Schulz and Larsen rifle?" question and then whining about lawyers making it impossible for him to sell his rifles in the USA. Someone who makes crap has to worry about lawyers, not someone who has a product that is defect free.

As far as the BS about

quote:

I have never stated that i was independent

was there a single mention of Joergen's association with S&L until I pointed his role in the business out? Concealing facts and lying are both equally unethical. Or, maybe, I have been brought up on a different set of ethics than this product pimp.

quote:

But that is the risk when people with less or no practical knowledge is braggin about ther "wisdon" on the internet, and then suddently is luered into exposing ther compleet nakedness

Stop whining like a menopausal bag caught making eyes at a 16 year old football player. You know nothing about me, beginning with your crap about languages. I speak far more than you know exist, including three European ones. I also buy guns for the collection of a very private European collector from India. And I don't need the crappy advice of a quality control specialist who cannot spell and who is little more than a pathetic whiner - male menopause perhaps?

Stop whining about why I should be allowed to participate in a debate. I have not lied, concealed any facts here or been whining about other countries' laws while indirectly pimping my products. Speaking of S&L products the older ones, especially the model 100 were nice. If you want to talk about the current detachable magazine ones, try and recall where in India your own company sent a catalogue in 2001. I can see your memory isn't that good, old man. You even have my address in your company's records, or, maybe, you have chosen to conceal this fact as well, just like you concealed your ownership of the company.

And, finally, are you the wheelchair bound Schulz and Larsen salesman who has been going around to fairs in Europe? If yes, then every description of you that I have posted here is absolutely correct.

Acoording to Mehul.
I ame pretty impressed over the pathetic respons to beeing exposed of lack of actual knowledge about rifleconstruction.Like a little child he is trying to discredit the person instead of cumming up with anything of relevans in the debate.

It must be pretty dificult for colectors from india to find qualifyed advisors, when employing Mehul as so

Acording to the pretty insulting statements about crappy products, i can inform you that we has ben able to sell mutch more than we are capable of producing, with a marketing budget less than o.3% of our anual turnover. That has ben the situation for the last 8 years.
I can inform that we has never ben exposed to any lawsuit because of defect products.

The reason we dont want to enter the american marked is because we dont have the capacity to enter this marked, with enough numbers to justify the costs for liabilityensurance.
The facts is if we sell 1 rifle directly to north america, our product liability ensurance, witch at the moment covers Europa, Africa, Asia, and australia and NZ, would be 500% more expencive,. So i'll not calling it wiening, just simple common financial sence.

About you having contacted our company in 2001, i gladly admit i dont remember you, and i can guaranty you that your adress and name is not kept in our records, as we dont spend time on registrating the many hundreds inquiryes from foregin customers. in 99% of the situations we dont hawe the time to ewen respond, so if you have had any responce, you can concider yourself "lucky".

Some people might find that NOT PROFESSIONEL, but that is our way of expanding more than 30% a year, Maintaining an acceptable profit, ewen inwesting heavily in new mashinery, and constantly developing and making new and better products redy to produce.

I can tell you that i dont own any shares in S&L, I sold mine in 98, and now i ame payed soly with a bonusagrement. and my main task is design and productiontrimming, i though have some contacts with major customers

Jorgen
Ref. Mehul: The word your looking for is "ignore", and sometimes you run across people that you simply must "ignore" just to keep your blood pressure in check.

However most of us find your information experance and ideas interesting and educational. Thank you.

Hmmmm...and I thought "flaming" was against the rules of the fora here...guess I was wrong.

Anyway, Jorgen, although you and I differ in some of our views, as you pointed out we agree on most of the important points.

Personally, I do not care what you own or what you don't own, or who you represent in earnng your living. To me what is important is, What do you know? What information can you provide and are you willing to do so? I think you have shown you are acceptably cooperative on that score, so I enjoy having you here to talk with. Best wishes, mein herr...and your English is considerably better than my Danish.

AC