Here´s a link to a test about the copper removing ability of all the major copper solvents.
Is this KG stuff all that good, or is this just an advertising test?

Cooper Removing test

Cheer´s

PS : Sorry for the mistake, cooper – copper - it’s correct now.

[It's Copper !] The KG12 is certainly agressive the way it pits the copper .I'd like to hear from someone who uses it .Did they look at the barrel too ?

Pretty silly “test†since all it invloved was soaking copper jacketed bullets in each solution.

To follow that logic, battery-acid would probably score pretty high also but I’m not sure I would want it down my rifle barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Pretty silly “test†since all it invloved was soaking copper jacketed bullets in each solution.

To follow that logic, battery-acid would probably score pretty high also but I’m not sure I would want it down my rifle barrel.

Agreed.

The test is a little more complete then just soaking the bullets in the various solutions.

There’s a Link on the top right of the page " Steel Washer Test" where it shows how a steel washer looked after 24 hrs soaking in each solution.

I don’t think battery acid would pass on this test, but you never know until you try.

quote:

Originally posted by Nsiro:
The test is a little more complete then just soaking the bullets in the various solutions.

There’s a Link on the top right of the page " Steel Washer Test" where it shows how a steel washer looked after 24 hrs soaking in each solution.

I don’t think battery acid would pass on this test, but you never know until you try.

Call me silly...but wouldn’t a good test consist of actually cleaning a barrel?

There are plenty of chemicals/solutions that will eat copper but they might also damage the bore.

I guess these kinds of “tests†make for good conversation but I really don’t see what practical value they have since they leave out the primary part of barrel cleaning...THE BARRELL!!!!!!!!

The barrels themselves would be an uncontrolled varible since each would be different. I would have liked to have seen more information about the steel washers: wgt loss, surface appearence, etc. Also, perhaps a washer that had been left in the solution for say a week. Which, over years, would not be an uncommon amount of accumulated contact with the cleaners.

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
The barrels themselves would be an uncontrolled varible since each would be different. I would have liked to have seen more information about the steel washers: wgt loss, surface appearence, etc. Also, perhaps a washer that had been left in the solution for say a week. Which, over years, would not be an uncommon amount of accumulated contact with the cleaners.

If each barrel would be different, why wouldn’t each bullet or washer be different?

Any test of “bore†cleaners that doesn’t include actually cleaning of a rifle bore after firing is ridiculous...IMO.

soaking an object has little real world meaning. The solvents in a bore are also in constant contact with oxygen, which soaking/immersion will not allow. Much of the volatility in the chemicals needs the oxygen to work properly. You can submerge a barrel in sweets 7.62 overnight,..but let that sweets dry in the bore and se what you got the next day The way I understand it, as some of the chemicals evaporate, the remaining chemicals will form some sort of acid with the humidity in the air and the pitting will result.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Any test of “bore†cleaners that doesn’t include actually cleaning of a rifle bore after firing is ridiculous...IMO.

Agreed. I don't use Sweet's because it stinks too much, but I can tell you that I know of two independent tests (people who don't sell or make any cleaners) who stated that Sweet's is either the best or second best in their tests.

Kory

I’m not a metallurgist so I have to ask...is the copper streaking/fouling left in a barrel (after being exposed to the heat, gases and friction) the same as the copper on an unfired bullet jacket?

Soak those bullets in WipeOut for 24 and hours and I'll bet you won't have a whole lot of bullet left.

Geronimo

Just switched to KG12 and found it is the best bore cleaner I have used. Several guys at my range have been using it for a while and found good results with no bore damage if used correctly.
I agree the test above is not exactly scientific, but the solution is very good. Look at the two pence piece test, you can see how much copper has been removed, yet the steel is unaffected

Kongy,

After using KG12 do you flush it out with degreaser, dry the bore and oil or anything else ?

I’m also thinking of changing to KG12, I’ve used Robla Solo Mil, but it smell’s a lot. What does KG12 smell like? Can you use it inside the house without being invited, by the wife, to go clean the guns outside?

Cheer´s,

wildcat junkie,..it would be foolish to place ones product against wipe-out, but I am sure they knew that already Wipe-out is the KING as far as I am concerned. I use my remaining sweets 7.62 to break-in new barrels since it is faster that wipe-out and I want to break it in in 1 afternoon, but all cleaing jobs have been given to wipe-out until something better comes along.

Wipe-out da best! Results in the cleanest bores (verfied with a borescope) I've ever seen and no brushing.

Kory

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
wildcat junkie,..it would be foolish to place ones product against wipe-out, but I am sure they knew that already

That's kinda what I was thinking.

Any of those foaming bore cleaners absolutely kick a$$. Especially the Outers that I can get at my local Wally Mart. I've got an SSK barrel for my Contender that coppers up bad, and this stuff works the nuts (it's soaking right now, in fact)

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
wildcat junkie,..it would be foolish to place ones product against wipe-out, but I am sure they knew that already

That's kinda what I was thinking.

After going back to the link, it appears that the bullets used for all of the "competitors" were "moly" plated!

quote:

Originally posted by Geronomo:
Soak those bullets in WipeOut for 24 and hours and I'll bet you won't have a whole lot of bullet left.

Geronimo

Just for the hell of it I did exactly that yesterday...and when I pulled the bullet out this morning the jacket is still very much intact. Frosted looking (not shiny), but no pits or places where the copper got “eaten†away. Give it a try yourself and see.

Rick, did you mic the bullet?

Geronimo

quote:

Originally posted by Geronomo:
Rick, did you mic the bullet?

Geronimo

No measurable change...and the Wipe-Out certainly didn’t “eat†the jacket off...nor did it pit the surface like those shown in the pictures. The surface is smooth as can be, and the sharp serrations of the cannelure are still present.

Try it yourself and see if you have a different result.

Not to say that wipe out doesn’t work fine in the bore...but contrary to what some on here have claimed would happen, it didn’t “eat†the copper jacket off the lead core.

It may not eat the bullet jacket,..but whatever is left in the bore is GONE! It even does it in 1 treatment in a factory barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
It may not eat the bullet jacket,..but whatever is left in the bore is GONE! It even does it in 1 treatment in a factory barrel.

I wasn’t questioning or “testing†anything as a bore cleaner. I already stated that such tests are ridiculous if they don’t actually test clean ing a bore. What I was doing was testing the statements made by several people that a bullet soaked in Wipe-Out would be eaten up, and that this was why it wasn’t included in these “testsâ€.

My overnight test proved that this is total hog wash...just like coca-cola eating nails soaked in it. I tested that one also one time and found that it too was hog wash.

rick that was a foregone conclusion I tried soaking a penny in sweets once,..and although it got really shiny, it surely didn't melt away. I figure that the copper particulate that is deposited is NOT the same compound as it was in the jacket, and that change along with the exposure to oxygen is what makes for the chemical reaction and copper fouling being removed.

I didn't bother soaking anyhting this time, I already knew that would be a waste of bore cleaner.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
rick that was a foregone conclusion I tried soaking a penny in sweets once,..and although it got really shiny, it surely didn't melt away. I figure that the copper particulate that is deposited is NOT the same compound as it was in the jacket, and that change along with the exposure to oxygen is what makes for the chemical reaction and copper fouling being removed.

I didn't bother soaking anyhting this time, I already knew that would be a waste of bore cleaner.

My point exactly!

If you want to test “bore†cleaners...the only logical and practical place to do that is in a “bore.â€

I also soaked jacketed bullets in straight ammonia, Sweets, Shooters choice, Hoppe’s BR, Butch’s Bore Shine, and every other bore cleaner I had out in the shop...and the results were all pretty much the same... Frosted finish on the jacket...but the jacket’s are still there after 24 hours with no measurable difference in thickness that I could find.

So what's that stain on the washer soaked in Hoppies No.9
The lable says ok to soak bore in the stuff indefinatly, I've never had any problems.
Has anyone had or heard of problems with No.9 ??
John L.

Most steel washers are galvanized or coated in some other way...and perhaps thats what you’re seeing.

Since I’ve yet to see any rifle barrels made of washers, and have also never seen a washer made from barrel steel, try soaking a piece of 4140 steel, or an old recoil lug, in Hoppes and see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

Has anyone had or heard of problems with No.9 ??

If there were problems with Hoppes #9, we would have heard of them a long time ago. The stuff has been around for more than a few decades.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

Has anyone had or heard of problems with No.9 ??

If there were problems with Hoppes #9, we would have heard of them a long time ago. The stuff has been around for more than a few decades.

About the only problem that I am aware of with Hoppes was the use of Bananna Oil (Benzene) at one time. That‘s the stuff that made it smell so damn good. Seems that ole’ Benzene ain’t real good for maintaining the sequence of your birthdays though!

The original formula Hoppe's #9 used nitrobenzene [BTW, Hoppe's still uses banana oil, aka amyl acetate].

This stuff is great at dissolving powder fouling, but not too healthy to have contact with. So it's not used in commercial bore solvents any more, though it was formerly [up to 1980's] an ingredient of many.