Prelude:

When I was a young guy many years ago - 18-22 years old, poor, inexperienced and curious I began venturing into more sophisticated areas of firearms. *( After being a shooter and hunter since 8 years old ).

I, fortunately, fell upon a friend and fellow employee who took a liking to me mutually and he took me under his wing setting me straight and taught the straight scoop.

I bought a Belgian FN Mauser 98 barreled action 250-3000. And built my own stock. Becoming dissatisfied I soon took it to a gunsmith, Pete Kopie, for re-chambering to 25-05 Neidner - Cum Remington.

As a tinkerer and Po-Boy I installed double set triggers myself at home. They proved to be a God Send for my purpose and accuracy.

On Canadian Hunts the guides told me that I could not carry my rifle with a round chambered.

AFTER I chambered, upon seeing game, I was in safe mode with double sets. However, when I set the second trigger it was - good to go!

Running shots, broadside, game fast forwarding, wind blowing bouncing up and down, distances guesstimated, velocity, bullet drop and the plethora of mental computerizations with potential mistakes and errors. Scope on 8 power as reasonable. Higher powers limited filed of vision and made running game hard to find. There was no time to use a range finder. It was seat of the pants, cross your fingers, figure all elements and experience, experiencer and experience. Pracice, practice, practice.

There was only that one millisecond to flick the finger. If it missed it came back again but it was always the same. The only instant where everything came together and, if missed, wait for the next.

____________________________________________

Bottom line:

Questions.

#1. How popular are double sets ?

#2. How do these compare with single sets ?

Note that I am definitely a "snap shooter" on game. I also shot bench rest but it is different.

DSTs are not popular in the US at all. Neither are SSTs; they are slow and potentially dangerous for use in the hunting fields; Germans like them.
A good plain single stage trigger is best for most hunters. Most of the muzzle loaders I build have DSTs, but honestly, I prefer a good single, direct pull trigger on them. I once over shot a deer using a 2 ounce DST; shot over it; as my finger touched the trigger , it fired. Over the back. A plain trigger of 3 or 4 pounds would have resulted in a dead deer instead of one running off into the woods.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
DSTs are not popular in the US at all. Neither are SSTs; they are slow and potentially dangerous for use in the hunting fields; Germans like them.
A good plain single stage trigger is best for most hunters. Most of the muzzle loaders I build have DSTs, but honestly, I prefer a good single, direct pull trigger on them. I once over shot a deer using a 2 ounce DST; shot over it; as my finger touched the trigger , it fired. Over the back. A plain trigger of 3 or 4 pounds would have resulted in a dead deer instead of one running off into the woods.

Haha, not the trigger's fault.

IMO, set triggers have a place for American style deer hunting in stands and shoot houses where it is more akin to being at a range than in the field.

I have a rifle project using a Winchester pre 64 Model 70 and wanted a Canjar single set trigger. I had a stroke of luck in finding a good deal on a complete rifle with one at about what the trigger is worth. Got the unit I needed and it came with a free Winchester.
I believe some if not all CZ 550s have a single set.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
DSTs are not popular in the US at all. Neither are SSTs; they are slow and potentially dangerous for use in the hunting fields; Germans like them.
A good plain single stage trigger is best for most hunters. Most of the muzzle loaders I build have DSTs, but honestly, I prefer a good single, direct pull trigger on them. I once over shot a deer using a 2 ounce DST; shot over it; as my finger touched the trigger , it fired. Over the back. A plain trigger of 3 or 4 pounds would have resulted in a dead deer instead of one running off into the woods.

I agree with most of your assessment. But I have never adjusted a DST to achieve maximum pull, so I woudnt know how far you could go with that. Personaly I prefer a lighter trigger for most shooting.

I doubt if there is really much practical in the field advantage to a DST, or a SST for that matter over a simple adjustable Timney or Bold. But with that said, I see zero disadvantage to them as well, and I wouldnt give up the classic look of a DST on my 7X57 for any single trigger.

There are two main disadvantages; to them; one, you have to remember to set them before you shoot, otherwise you get a heavier pull. Two, they can be set to a matter of ounces, which, also can be a disadvantage in hunting; my experience shows that, to me. I prefer a standard, light, trigger. For the average hunter, they serve no purpose, even from a stand. True, they do look classic. Don't forget, most original Mausers made for the European trade had them, but the export ones, didn't. They are a German solution to a non-existent problem, which is why our early long rifles have them. French and English ones don't. I had a CZ550, 375 that had the SST; never used it. It had a nice trigger without it. Triggers measured in ounces are fine for target shooting but not for hunting.

Perhaps those cursed with an unwanted double set trigger would offer them for sale on the forum (or a Canjar single set trigger).

I have a CZ 453 in 22 with a single set trigger. Used for squirrel hunting over a dog. The normal trigger was very nice and used it 75% of the time. When I had a off handed go at a dot of squirrel in the top of a tall pecan tree the set really was better. Only thing I do not like is the set trigger is push forward making the pull longer. With so many good after market triggers the "set" is just something else to go wrong.

I have at least 6 or 8 rifles with DSTs and one with a SST; they won't be offered for sale as they are part of the rifles and can't simply be exchanged.

I have had many rifles with both single set and double set triggers. Oddly enough in all my years of hunting I can only think of two big game animals that I have shot that were over two hundred yards away and I have only shot one animal on the move and he wasn't moving that fast.

I have always had all for the time in the world to shoot and I am an open country shooter. Probably in about 50% of the cases I have made a conscious decision not to bother with the set trigger because using it simply would have made no difference. In the other 50% the trigger was set without even giving it a second thought.

I would have to say that I prefer a double set over a single any day of the week. I have had single sets do foolish things when my hands were cold or wet and slippery. The double sets seem much more positive to me. I have a particular hatred for the Canjar single set with its tiny pop out tab. The problem however is not with the trigger, but with me. My hands are ridiculously small and I always find myself pulling on the edge of triggers and not in the center. To shoot the Canjar single set I have to consciously twist my hand out and ride up the grip to catch the small tab. I have exactly the same problem with guns equipped with those foolish accu-triggers. 9 times out of ten when I pull an accu-trigger, the gun falls into its safe notch and does not fire.

Set triggers are not for everyone and they take a lot of practice before their use is second nature. While I use them myself I generally don't recommend them to many of my customers.

I have five CZ 527s and adjusted the set not to work except on a couple we use when prairie dog shooting.

Just something else to fiddle with if hunting.

If you have a good trigger you don't want a set. Kenny

i have a dst still new in the package. made by Jim Wisner. Made like a Swiss watch. If someone is interested in buying---send me a pm

I have both types of set-triggers. The double trigger is usually the most sensitive but in my opinion, the front trigger (the shooting one...) is placed too far forward for optimal control and the (double-stage) trigger pull in unset mode is often creepy.


OTOH, the "rückstecher" (push forward to set) is situated ideally and remains as crisp as a regular trigger in unset mode.

I have one rifle with a single set a joy to shoot off the bench. Don't think I ever use the feature in the field.

I find a standard trigger in the 3lb range on my big game rifles to be just fine. Too light of trigger when hunting in averse conditions can be a detriment.

My varmint guns are a bit less.

Just curious, but has anyone noticed better off- the- bench accuracy using the set trigger, either single or double, unset?
Reason I ask is that when used unset, the trigger acts directly on the sear... One mechanical action fires the gun. When set, I believe the set trigger releases and hits a "kickoff" piece which then hits the sear and releases the shot. Thus in unset firing mode, you have "click- bang. " In set mode you have "click, click, bang." Not only would the lock time be longer, but there would be more mechanical vibration as well. So what say you all?

In theory, you must be right. In practice however and despite the extra linkage, a feather weight trigger pull outclasses a 2 lbs. classic trigger. The set-trigger is valuable when shooting deliberately from a bench or steady rest but could prove dangerous shooting offhand or at moving game.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wetibbe:
Prelude:



. Becoming dissatisfied I soon took it to a gunsmith, Pete Kopie, for re-chambering to 25-05 Neidner - Cum Remington.

Was that Pete Kopie that had a shop in Lyndora Pa.,then moved a few miles south of Butler on rt 8 when the state demolished his original shop to build a new bridge? Wow, that was a few years ago. Was in his shop many times while growing up. I still occasionaly see one of his recoil pads that he had Pachmayer make with his name and address molded in on guns in local gun shows.

I have double sets on several hunting rifles. I carry them un-set and if I have time I set them before shooting, which is virtually always, even (especially) when dealing with moving targets.

I like set triggers for offhand target shooting too. I find them a boon when snatching off the shot as the sights momentarily settle on the bullseye. Lag time? I guess there is, but it is so short as to be un-noticeable by me.

Given a choice, I would have double sets on every rifle I own.

I have had them before on Steyr rifles. I do not personally favor them.

The best trigger for me is a two stage trigger like a Swiss K-31 for hunting.

For target shooting the Jewell Type is wonderful.

quote:

Originally posted by yellowdog1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wetibbe:
Prelude:



. Becoming dissatisfied I soon took it to a gunsmith, Pete Kopie, for re-chambering to 25-05 Neidner - Cum Remington.

Was that Pete Kopie that had a shop in Lyndora Pa.,then moved a few miles south of Butler on rt 8 when the state demolished his original shop to build a new bridge? Wow, that was a few years ago. Was in his shop many times while growing up. I still occasionaly see one of his recoil pads that he had Pachmayer make with his name and address molded in on guns in local gun shows.

Small World:

That's THE Pete.

He was on Route 8 when I knew him.

My memory isn't all that good any more but as I recall he sold Belgian FN Mauser actions to me for $135. I think the re-chambering was around $30 - $35. I bought great semi finished Walnut stocks, from Herters, for $40 - $45 and the double set triggers cost somewhere close to $30 - $35. The glass bedding wasn't very expensive. So I put together rifles that were excellent, shot like a dream, super accurate with stocks that looked great. For around $250 or so.

Certainly far better in quality and appearance than store bought rifles. I hear that currently some custom rifles were selling for the $3,000 - $4,000 range.

The 25-05 shot 3 shot groups at 100 yards that I covered with nickels and dimes. I shot everything from crows, ground hogs, prairie dogs, *( Turkey Oops , white tails, Muleys and even a moose in Canada.

I moved into reloading very soon and haven't bought or shot a full box of factory ammo in all these years.