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| Switch-Barrel rifle poll | Login/Join |
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This is a poll to determine general interest in a switch-barrel rifle concept. Here is the concept: - Turnbolt direct lockup to barrel design - Scope ready - Variable bolt stop (long, medium, short)throw - Detachable magazine for each chambering - Easy change bolt heads - adjustable trigger w/safety - One tool takedown w/butt stock tool storage - Synthetic stock w/swivels - Bipod ready - matte blue metal finish - MOA accuracy guarantee w/premium ammo - Basic rifle cost(w/1 barrel) $500 - Extra barrels $200 ea. (24 in. and 30 in.) - Extra bolt heads $100 ea. - Extra magazines $40 ea. _ Calibers: 25-06,.270,.30-06,35 Whelan,22-250,.243,.260 Rem,7mm-08,.308,.358 Win,.300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem mag, .223, 7.62x39, .45 auto, 9mm Luger, 7.62x25 Tokarev Please leave comments if poll does not address concerns. Thank you! | ||
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I have never understood the alure of such a rifle... | |||
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Would rather just buy another Ruger for $600. Savage bascially already has what you are asking for. It is a cool concept but in reality it would be confusing on a hunt. Which barrel, what ammo, where is it sighted in, etc. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Thompson Contender builds something close and I would not own it. My fear is what am I getting for $500. Doesn't seem to be enough for such a rifle. Oh and chuck the syth stock. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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As I read that description, the bolt is locking into the barrel, not the reciever. I could be wrong but I don't think you have a prayer of producing the accuracy you are claiming at those prices. Every barrel would essentially have to be the same and that takes costly fixtures, machines, and high tolerances all of which drive the cost up. Not saying it can't be done, but not at $200 for a spare barrel. | |||
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I don't think locking into the barrel is such a good idea either..unless there's some sort of heat treated extension. The suggested prices seem "not attaniable" You'd also need seperate scopes for each barrel... I vote "no" | |||
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If you are going to do this I think you need to add a 9,3x62 or something that qualifies as DGR round. I don't know about the feeding issues with a 375 ruger but that would be a good choice... For me, I could live with a 9,3x62 and 270 for everything... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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No Hornet, no .257 Roberts, it's garbage ! | |||
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Or a 300 savage?????????? www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Among my biggest fallacies is that I assume everyone wants what I want and sometimes it's close to being true. Names of folks that made good businesses making exactly what they wanted are Joyce Hornady and Bill Ruger for a start. Add to that Bill Gates and you see the possibilities! Schultz and Larson make a turnbolt that locks into the barrel and is convertible to a degree and even a take down model. It's a superb rifle for sure, made in Denmark, but not imported to this country. I strongly suspect they don't think it would sell well here as it's a high dollar gun. There are folks doing well at guns I'd never have thought one could sell. Butch Searcy comes to mind! Many others making the exclusive high dollar (and equally high quality) firearms. I've always thought folks should follow their dreams. Bear in mind however that dreams and nightmares are found in the very same place. It can be a tough row to hoe! I'll be cheering for you in your quest. | |||
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I seriously doubt any of the pricing listed is practical for a person who wants to stay in business...and I don't want to buy a rifle from someone who may go broke at any moment. That would make spares very iffy, customer service non-existant, and probably make the last few rifles built into affairs which were haphazardly put together. I don't mean any of that in a nasty way, but I have seen WAY TOO MANY rifle and other shooting related companies come and go in the last 70+ years. Think of the Newton...great cartridges for their day (maybe ANY day), lots of nice features. But, did Mr. Newton do himself or anyone else any favors by not making enough money to stay in business? Heck, barrels @ $200? One can't buy a really good blank for that today. And, without a really good blank, is guaranteed MOA accuracy feasible? Sure, a guy could make his own barrels, but who is going to pay for the equipment and skills required, not to mention good, homogenous, heat-treated steel? Same kinds of things are true about $100 bolts, and all the rest if they are going to be well quality-controlled. As for myself, I don't like rifles with detachable magazines, rifles with synthetic stocks, or rifles where the bolts lock into the barrels...the latter because it makes it a pain for me to fit my own barrels if that ever becomes required. I also don't want my rifle cluttered up with some kind of mount for a bipod...something which I NEVER use on my big game rifles. I also prefer rifles which take down with anything that acts like a screwdriver. I don't want to have to find a special tool when I lose the one which came with the rifle...about 200 miles from nowhere in the Yukon. I think if you plan to build a rifle which will compete with some of the Euro premium take-downs, you're gonna have to price it with them to attract my interest. Then you'll have a hope of sticking around to stand behind it. Sorry to be so blunt, but I think you need to review your business plan....and better now than after you've got yourself and some customers hung out to dry. | |||
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Well, I voted based on the concept basically. Rifles that lock up into the barrel do create some problems for their owners, if they want to rebarrel--my biggest issue with my Sauers... IF you can provide barrels at a reasonable cost, I would go there in a minute...I LIKE detachable mags, I don't really see why lots of folks dislike them, shoot, most military weapons have them, and that is the most dangerous game situation I can think of..... I agree with those who posted saying this price structure is unrealistic, but again, I like the concept. If Sauer made more barrels available here, I'd buy a bunch in a hearbeat. As far as accuracy BTW, it is hard to beat a Sauer, which locks up into the barrel. | |||
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I find switch barrels clever, etc., buy why own one rifle when you can own two? | |||
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I would go the other route. A nice light breakopen with barrels. Sorry that it didn't work for Knight and TC went with a pistolrifle. Rich | |||
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Yeh, richj, the public sure didn't vote the way I would on that one either (the T/C). They offered both a nice break-open rifle with double-set triggers and interchangeable barrels (the TCR'83, or TCR'85 without set-triggers), AND the Contender pistol/carbine thinga-ma-bob at one time. The large public chose the Contender, and I chose the TCR. (A perfect example of why I no longer go to the dog-track....)  I really liked the T/C "TCR-'83" and still have one along with 6 different barrels for it. Among other things, it has a scope on each barrel, so I don't have to sight-in every time I change a barrel. Plus, I can put a scope which matches the primary use(s) of each barrel onto each one. The TCR regular profile barrels are as accurate as just about any factory hunting rifle I've had, though their heavier profile "custom shop" barrels I have are not as accurate in my individual gun. ---------------------- Having also owned a bunch of truly high-quality Mauser take-downs-come-switch-barrels (Frasers, Rigby's, Jeffery's, etc.) I DO like that kind of switch-barrel just as well, and am honestly surprised that none are readily available from a LARGE modern maker in the American market. With precision modern machinery they should be a snap to make, at about $300-$400 per additional barrel. A two piece stock should not be much more expensive than a one-piece stock, the main difference being the addition of two thin but solid metal plates...one on the front of the buttstock, the other on the rear of the forend. As for holding the barrels in place, most of the ones I had used a very simple concept, a hole in the receiver ring, with a threaded screw impinging on a recess in the barrel shank inside. Worked splendid in each instance, despite all the theoretical disasters one might envision. So, the only takedown device needed was a screwdriver. If a guy wanted to make that more secure from field tampering, he could use an allen-head screw. Total time to change a barrel on any of mine was about 10-15 seconds, assuming one started out with a screwdriver at hand. Tney were also very handy to carry insignificantly when travelling, as the same features allowed them to serve with a single-barrel as a "take-down" rifle. | |||
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It gives you the opportunity to try other calibers for 35% of the price for a complete rifle of the same make. It also allowes you to change to a new caliber, without getting ripped by a gunsmith  | |||
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To Bobster If you look towards Europe you find several brands delivering rifles wit basicaly all the features you mention.althoug a little more costly, but that mighe relate to a higher quality, than avarage american standard Send a PM if you want details and inspiration | |||
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It also allows people who live in countries that limit numbers of firearms to have multiple calibers without exceeding their legal limit of guns. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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It is called the Sig SHR970 and it didn't last all that long. Reportedly great rifles, just no market for them. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Bobster I own every rifle cal. listed except the 300 & 7 maggies so no need for such a rifle for me, eh?  Well not quite, because I just bought a Marlin XS7 in 708 and I plan on buying a extra .358 Win. barrel to make it into a switch barrel rifle.. Myself I don't like rifles that weigh more than 7 1/2# scoped up so that would be an important consideration for me also.. While the switch barrel concept may not be popular with this crew you only have to go to the Savage Forum Website and the Marlin site to see there is a lot of interest. Like the others here I don't see how you are going to make this rifle to sell for $500.00.. Also I see the world economy getting much worse in the coming months and years.. | |||
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With a good barrel beginning at $250 and going up from there I'd be scared to death of a $200 barrel already machined. And a basic rifle for $500? I wouldn't touch it with 10 ft. pole. But it might compete with the new plastic Remington. "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". | |||
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Hi Duane Wiebe Sorry I missed your post (in red) Kreiger barrels rockwell at 28-30...well..give you the benefit of the doubt here...28-30 OK with you? We did a few blowuptests on several diferent actiontypes, using 100% identical 6.5x55 barrels. The results was: several actions with the fabolus clawextractor blew up around 84.000psi several PF actions with Sako type extractors blew up around 130.000psi Remmington 700 and actions where the bolt locked directly in the barrel (29hrc9 let go at 147.000psi So OK with me i guess If so... good...A scope with "multiple zeros"s...Are you serious? say a 6-24 on a 500 Jeff? I don't think so..but you're the expert! In the original post i only se pretty common calibers, and no warmint calibers as the one you mention, Also multiple zeero scopes is available in not so specialized "cloose combat" configurations as your prefered 6-24 "Common American Standards" is apparently meant to be an insult to us here in the"colonies"... I dont intend to insult at all, If the statement is insulting, 60%-80% of the rifles produced or sold in US is insulting, as they are sold at prices from 300$ - 700$. And productionwise it is not more dificult to mfg a switch barrel rifle than it is to mfg a rifle with a treaded in barrel No.......Yes..... (Please check one) I vote "no"[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE] | |||
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I don't like switch barrel guns period. That being said, I do not like your caliber selection. All are more or less deer cartridges except the 35 Whelen. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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Jargen: You sure about a 700 where the bolt locked direcly into the barrel? That 's a new one on me. Appreciate you thoughts about switch barrels/costs. Guess I need to take lessons! | |||
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Thanks to all for your input. A gun manufacturer has expressed interest. The feedback is interesting, but needs more statistical power. Less than 5 % of those who viewed the poll voted. So if some of you who didn't vote could put in your opinion, it would give me something of substance to present. Bobster | |||
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I'd very much enjoy that! Toured the facitity for Sauer/Mauser in San Antonio last week end. Pretty unique and the bolt indeed locks into the barrel. Looks like a seperate piece to me, but the General Manager assured me it was not. The entire barrel and locking lugs are supposedly hammer forged with seperate heat treating at the locking recess. The takedown's are well engineered...now if they do something about the looks... | |||
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Well Bobster I can't seem to vote in your poll because the poll requires that I answer both questions.. Question #2 is at odds with question #1 BUT your poll requires that you answer both..  I have to agree with what Duane Wiebe says about looks..The pictures of Euro switch barrel rifles that I have seen hurt my eyes.. The Blaser K93 being the best looking of the bunch to me.. | |||
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Low Wall, Question 1 asks if you would buy it. Question 2 is directed at the folks that answered no and asks why they would not buy it. I thought that was pretty straight forward. Sorry for the confusion. Bobster | |||
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Bobster, I voted. I'd buy one! Although, I am not quite sure why. I think maybe more just to have one rather than use it as intended. I bought a Jackson Hole Arms switch barrel built on a Parker-Hale action. It came with three barrels. 30-06, 257 Roberts and 22-250. I think the gun was built in the early '70s. It has a nice piece of walnut in a "Weatherby style" stock, which to my tastes is on the homely side. When I got the gun it had the 30-06 barrel mounted and a Redfield 2-7 on the receiver. I cleaned it, shot it with 51.5 grains of Varget pushing a Speer 150 flat base. The first shot was an inch off the group. The next four fell into an inch. I Ultra Bore Coated the barrels and fired some existing 257 loads I had and it shot about 2.5 inches and an inch off the 30-06 POI. I swapped the 30-06 barrel into the gun and worked up a 53 grain load of Varget under a 130 grain TTSX which shot into an inch with about an inch of adjustment to the scope to place POI 2 inches high. I have never put the 22-250 barrel on the gun and likely never will. I doubt that I will ever put the .257 Roberts barrel back on the gun. Even though this gun seems to shoot pretty well and the zero adjustments seem to be small to accommodate different calibers let alone a different barrel, I am not about to go kicking turds. If the gun shoots that well I will either shoot it and kill things or put it in the safe until I need it to kill something with. Fooling with swapping barrels won't make it more accurate and having had rifles that take a lot of work to get that kind of accuracy out of it just makes sense to leave it like it is and should the need arise to kill something with a .22-250 or .257 Roberts I can always reconsider at that time. I too am doubtful that such a gun can be made with the features at that price with a MOA guarantee. But, if you put what looks like a reasonably well made gun in my hands for that money I will buy it. I paid more for my JHA switch barrel, I got no accuracy guarantee, I got no warranty on the gun since it was long out of a factory that is now no longer extant. I didn't even get to shoot it before I bought it. I bought it because it's a unique part of our history and it's decently well made. It won't inhibit me buying a .257 Roberts should I find one I like, nor a 22-250 or 30-06. I won't even change the scope on it. Make it in stainless with stainless guts and a weatherproof stock and I'll like it more (and pay more). In fact, build one and I will pay to wring it out, 25-06/30-06 flavor please! | |||
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Bobster See below for what I get when I voted by answering question #1 -- Yes, w/3 barrels + mags NOW maybe that is why less than 5% of the views are responding to your poll..hmmmm ------------------------------------------------ Error Login/JoinWelcome, Low Wall [Logout] You must select a poll answer for every question on this poll. Go Back | The Accurate Reloading Forums ----------------------------------------------- | |||
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I buy most of my firearms used I find that most of the time I can buy a complete used rifle for the cost of barrels of the barrels some makers offer. Isn't the Encore a swicth barreled rifle. | |||
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