The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Re: Barrel life of a 30-06Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Go to bed Tanker. I'll be by in the morning and we'll go shoot cats. JCN | ||
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McInnis: I used to worry about barrel wear, but I don't know, primarily because I have a lot of rifles and wearing any one out will not be a big deal. To minimize barrel wear, I never shoot so fast the barrel is hot to touch, and I never practice shooting offhand at 100 yards with my 7mm STW or one of my 300 Mags - a .223 or .308 works just fine. At the end of the day, however, the ONLY way to get good is to shoot. Sure, dry firing helps, but you need to get out and shoot, and not just from a benchrest and not just when the wind is calm. You might think a burned out barrel is cause for concern, but you should think about how much better you will be in field. By the time you burn up that barrel you will have burned up more dollars in components than that new barrel costs, but you will be a much better shot. Rebarreling a rifle is no big deal - most any gunsmith can do it, but pick one who knows what he is doing. | |||
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Where would the fun be in reducing the time and amount you shoot? As the others have said enjoy the rifle and if/when the time comes just have a new bbl installed, very easy and reasonable. Doug | |||
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What kind of groups are you shooting now? If the're around an inch or a little more and your happy with that(I would be) youl' probably good for 10,00+ before you notice your groups opening up signifacantly. .If you don't 'push the max' and don't let the barrel get hot while shooting. Most standard round barrels are never shot out if cared for properly. capt david  | |||
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Hi, I wouldn't worry too much about wearing your 30.06 barrel out, might take alot more rounds than you think, There are many ex-military rifles around that have seen several thousand put through them and they still shoot as good as new. There is more damage done to the rifling by cleaning than No. of rounds put through. Saying that I'm on my second 30.06 barrel on my Win.70, that barrel saw over 3000 full power rounds and no sign of erosion or loss of accuracy, the barrel looked as good as new when I pulled it off. I did a full custom job on the M70 with a heavy SS 24" barrel..etc etc.. Never used boat tails but you do hear that they are "hard" on barrels if you can believe that stuff. Take it easy........Les | |||
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I read somewhere on the internet that typically after 3-4,000 rounds through a 30-06 type rifle, accuracy will start to decline. I wish I could remember where I saw it so I could post a link, but I can't. It even sited some research done by Sierra. So here's the deal - I just started reloading last year and have been shooting a lot. After reading that, now I'm worried that I'll shoot the barrel out of my nice new Browning A-Bolt before it even looks like it's been in the field. I'm guessing there will be a lot of experience on this here, so here's my questions: Does anyone have experience getting many more rounds out of a rifle than that, with good accuracy? Does shooting boat-tail bullets cause more throat erosion than flat based bullets? Does shooting stick powder cause more erosion than ball powder? The article said it did, and I'm guilty of both. How much difference does shooting rounds at minimum vs maximum loads make? Currently, when I want to practice shooting from field positions I just load up to my hunting loads, not worrying about using a few extra grains of powder. But I never even thought about the wear on my barrel. Finally, does anyone make replacement barrels for Browning A-Bolts? I did a quick search on the internet and couldn't find anyone who does. I'm not like most of you. I only have a few guns and I've got to make them last a long time. My wife really doesn't understand why I need more than one.  Thanks in advance! | |||
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Quote: Answers: yes, up to 7500 shots. no (stick powder? extruded ). maybe, but argueable.min. vs. max: overbore are harder than .06, but hotter=throat erosion, so yes. there are lots and lots of barrel makers, excellent gunsmiths, etc. that would be happy to rebarrel you gun. It doesn't have to be a Browning barrel, in fact, preferrably not. See: http://sst.benchrest.com/#barrels | |||
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Making sure your barrel doesn't get too hot will make your barrel last much longer. Using good cleaning techniques, and not letting the barrel collect fouling, will also help. I would think an '06 would last longer than most people could shoot it, if it's cared for properly. | |||
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What kind of groups are you shooting now? If the're around an inch or a little more and your happy with that This gun will pretty consistently shoot 1" to 1.25" groups with the best load I've been able to come up with so far, and I'll take that. I did wonder if the "loss of accuracy" I've read about applied more to target guns where very slight differences could mean a lot. You guys are reassuring me, but now I'm wondering about the cleaning part because I do tend to be kind of obsessive about that. I don't use a bore brush often, but I do clean with Hoppes after after time I shoot - should I be doing that? | |||
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First of all welcome McInnis! I think your on the right track. I am much more concerned about poor cleaning methods than actual wear itself. My gunsmith is convinced that the major cause of barrel wear is from overzealous bore brush use. Lots of real aggressive copper removal products on the market today too, personally I would suggest caution with those as well if longevity means anything to you. In that aspect the jury is still out on stuff like wipe out as far as Im concerned. We will see how the barrels that get that stuff overnight on a regular basis look after about 5 years or so. I guess cleaning a rifle is kind of like other aspects of guns, to each his own. With that, all I can say is if your worried about how long your 30-06 barrel will last, dont buy an ultra mag..  | |||
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"Erosion " [wearing away ] is not what happens to a barrel. Instead carbon is absorbed from the hot gases, and that in turn creates micro cracking. To minimize that never let your barrel get hot.The other problem {which is wear] is overzelous cleaning.If you are using chemicals to remove copper give it some time to work and don't be paranoid about getting it absolutely clean. | |||
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i would not worry about wearing out an 06 barrel i have 5 06 s and more comming my current one has 3000 rounds through it as we speak and the other week i shot a 4 shot group at 400 m which was under 3 inches .....i have used some REALLY HOT LOADS IN MY 06 FOR TESTING but i have always made sure not to overheat the barrel by shooting in quick succesion if you dont want to use bore brushes and ammonia cleaners use WIPE OUT its the best stuff i have ever come across as far as cleaning rifle bores stop worrying about barrel life ...just enjoy the shooting Daniel | |||
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Couple minor points, 1 is that I have no use for a close range gopher cartridge (223). 2 is that I kept my OAL at mag box -.030 for operational reasons, so chasing the lands wasn't a option. 3 is that 30-06 chambers are throated for 220gr RN bullets, and with a 150gr SPBT style bullet, by the time you reach the lands there's little or nothing of the bullet left in the case. | |||
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As you barrel gradually wears, you may find you can restore accuracy by seating out your bullets. This process can go on until the throat recedes too far for you to reach it. Best solution: get a .223 (or even better a .222  ) preferably with the same heft and trigger weight as your .30-06. Then use the .223 for most of your practice. Easier on the ammo budget, easier on your shoulder, shoot more, get to be a better shot. Then shoot your .30-06 from time to time not to forget the recoil involved (compared to the .223). Whatever cartridge you shoot, never let the barrel get too hot to touch. That will extend barrel life.There it is, the perfect excuse to get another rifle (or two!) - just what you needed, I'm sure - mike | |||
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In my 308's I would go about 4,000 rounds before I noticed the guns would begin to throw shots outside of the 10 ring (about 12 inches) at 600 yards. At 100, 200 and 300 the throat erosion barely mattered. Since I started moly coating my bullets I'm now getting about 6200 rounds before I notice problems at 600 yards and beyond. The moly really cuts down on throat erosion for lots of reasons... For hunting accuracy a barrel will last 10,000 rounds easily. And If you are shooting ammo that costs .20 cents a shot that means you have spent $2,000 on ammo and can certainly afford to spring for another barrel. My M1A is on its 4th barrel... 30-06 operates at lower pressures and is generally a little easier on the bore than a 308...But of course that all depends on how you feed it and how you take care of it. | |||
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Define shot out. For me it's when the average group size doubles, for others it's when they can no longer hit a pie plate at 50yds. Personal experance with my 30-06 (Shilen barrel) it took about 5000 rounds (all Lt mag equiv reloads) to double the average group size (1/2 up to 1MOA), than had the barrel set back 1 thread, which was not enough to completly eliminate the throat erosion, groups returned to 1/2MOA increasing to 1MOA at 7500 rounds total, at which time I had the barrel replaced. Somewhere out there my old barrel is making someone very happy with it's "shot out" 1 1/4 groups. | |||
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I have an '03 Springfield that was built in the early 20's. It's been shot so much that the rifling is very shallow at the breech end, and it still is accurate enough to hunt any big game animal in North America. It's up to you to decide how much accuracy you need. You can buy precise, expensive rifles from big name smiths and wrap your life around careful programs of load development, break-in, cleaning, and such. I went a little ways down this path, and I learned a huge amount about how rifles work. (I also found myself getting up in the middle of the night to compare BC's, and finally I had to quit.) People who go this route are the de facto Research & Development departments for ammo makers and for the US military. They are the reason we have better gear than we did even ten years ago, whether in the game fields or on the battlefield. But their rifles don't kill deer any deader than my 80-year-old Springfield. In the end, your rifle should be a source of wonder and enjoyment. It should make you think about the world and your place in it. Whether you get that from babying it or using it for run, dodge and jump is up to you. Concentrate on having a good time and the rest will come. Hope this helps, Okie John. | |||
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Tailgunner, my latest post was actually a reply to "McInnis" initial post, your post just happened to be last in line, when I hit the "reply" button. So please don't take my comments as directed towards you, I was hoping to contribute to the discussion about barrel life in a .30-06 and what options a shooter had. - mike | |||
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I wish I could remember all the details but since I am lacking a photographuc memory you get what I can remember. I did email Dad and asked him to see if he could dig up the article for me. I have a feeling he is going to start into the file cabinet and want to kill me. So we will have to wait and see if he is willing to dig through all my stuff. It does make you think about barrel life though. I have a 308 match rifle that has well over 5000 rounds through it and it still shoots sub MOA. I personally think that barrel life has a lot to do with the quality of materials used. The barrel I mentioned is double cryo treated while still in the stock portion and then again after rifling and contouring. I dont know if that made a difference but it sure cleans up easy and has very little throat wear. I had another 308 top name match barrel that the throat was completely gone after less than 1000 rounds. It was a bugger to clean from day 1. | |||
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I know I've put 5,000 rds through my M1, and I'm pretty sure it has probably had triple that number before me. Not much rifling left in the old bugger; but it still lobs them in there around 3"@100yds. turfman | |||
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Quote: Id like to know more about that article Tanker. That is interesting stuff, especially the part about not reaching peak accuracy until 2500 rnds. Kind of gives new meaning to the whole concept of barrel break in... | |||
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OK mho. However point 2&3 (mag and throat length) can sometimes be limiting factors in the "chase the land" game for any cartridge. | |||
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Quote: Absolutely. - mike | |||
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In the early 80's the Army did some barrel life testing using National Match M14's. All testing was conducted with match ammo. I cant remember their barrel cooling and cleaning procedures or exact #'s. I do remember that peak accuracy was not reached until after 2500 rounds. And that they did not see a significant decrease in accuracy until after 9000 rounds. The accuracy standard was 1 MOA. This was an average of I believe 25 rifles and all tests were conducted from fixtures to remove human error. I have a copy of the testing report back at my parents in Idaho. I will have to get my Dad to dig it out. I wish I could remember all the exact details but that gives you an idea. | |||
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One small point that no one has touched on (probably because everyone takes it for granted) is to always use a proper bore guide when cleaning your rifle. Also, the thought of having a "practice" rifle of lesser calibre that is set up like your 06 makes excellent sense. I have shot over 100 rounds of 30-06 ammo in a day while wearing a T shirt. But its something you have to work up to. You can easily shoot 100 rounds from a .222/.223 without any work up at all. | |||
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Somewhere way back in the American Rifleman there was a test done on '06 by H.P. White Labs. They shot a gazillion rounds thru a Springfield. At so many thousand round the accuracy dropped off and a few thousand later it came back again. I have no idea how many years ago that article was but I have never worried about that since reading that test. I have at least five 30'06 and all shoot better than the shooter! Enjoy...like they have said before...just don't fry the bbl. and it will still be going when we plant you 6 feet under. | |||
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Please don't take offense, but it's a bit like asking how long an engine in a car will last. If you bought it to look at it, fine - don't use it, it will last forever. If you bought it to use it, accept that it will wear out, and enjoy the process. You'll have much more fun, and be a better shooter. As others have said, more guns are worn out by over zealous cleaning, than will ever be worn out by shooting. | |||
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