Well, gee, guys, this is not the way to set a barrel back!!

A Customer's rifle, he brought it in because it fed poorly and scraped the brass. It's a almost new Stainless Classic M70 in 375 H&H. I thought it just had a burr on the chamber, a common problem with today's factory belted chambers.

So, I pulled the barrel and found a butcher job. Seems this rifle had been to a once well known shop in Pacific NW area for an accuracy job. This shop is thankfully now out of business.

Look at the photo, a standard M70 barrel shank is on the left, the butchered barrel is on the right. Looks like the gent that was setting the barrel back after truing up the front of the receiver took 4 or 5 trys to get the headspace OK, taking off a thread and machining the shoulder and breech each time and running in a reamer each time. Regarding the chamber, the extractor cut area went in too far, leaving a razor edge that was eating brass, plus the chamber mouth had a sharp edge. AND the cone was not deep enough, the bolt was wearing a groove in the cone.

I will be installing a new barrel. This one is now a tent stake, as I consider the remaining threads a safety risk, especially when one considers the extractor cut and the fact that the broaching of the lug ways in the M70 Classic receiver removes some of the thread area.



[ 03-21-2003, 06:28: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

Hey John,
Thanks for finding that barrel that Axel rechambered with the firestorm cordless, bacon grease, and horseshoe nails and files.

He told me that he cut the threads back, cuz he wanted a switch barrel... said if he puts the bullets in backwards, the spin would be backwwards, and would make the barrel screw out by hand... and then he could just twist the enxt barrel in, and shoot one the right way...

he said he would try to get the same level of skill on his unimat, ...

thanks for sharing this one.. what a nightmare

jeffe

What a Quack!!

John

I have a 375 barrel that looks exactly like the one in your photo. It no doubt came from the same shop you mentioned as it was bought in an auction from a company that closed their doors. After looking at the barrel threads it perhaps was for the best that they are not in business anymore.

I remember showing it to a few smiths that day and everyone had to shake their head.

Fortunately the one I have didn't find its way out of the shop on an action of some unsuspecting shooter.

Hi guys

Since the company is out of business, how about posting their name?

I'd hate to buy a used rifle and get one of theirs!

jpb

Well now we know that 5 1/2 turns are enough to hold a barrel against 0.375" H&H loads. That's certainly worthwhile knowing.

cheers edi

Hate to start this old saw again, but this is another strength of the Mauser design. No cones, no extractor cuts, just a nice square barrel. Mauser's normally have around 6 threads to hold the barrel and it is completely adequate. It is also much easier to set a barrel back accurately, so the chances of a mediocre smith ruining your barrel is much less.

Art, I almost said the same thing! Here Here to Paul Mauser! As the Mauser is a coarser thread, takes a numercial less number of threads. (12 per inch for the Mauser, 16 for the Win)

The way to avoid this problem when installing a new barrel that you have to thread: Do not cut a thread relief groove, instead learn how to thread up to a shoulder via the tool back out method. This way if the barrel is ever set back in the future, you do not have the groove and you can again have a full thread. This is important in BR barrels where we set the barrel back a good distance to clean up a shot out throat.

I still do not understand why the "Smith" took soo much off the barrel!!!

Work was done by Arnold Arms. Charged the owner $400 to "Accurize" the rifle. I would say if anyone has a rifle that was worked on by Arnold, have a shop pull the barrel and inspect the threads and chamber.

[ 03-21-2003, 18:51: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

Unfortunately, this falls into the "easily hidden so the client won't know until it's too late" category.

Once the guy butchered it, he was able to "hide" it, at least physically, when he screwed it back into the action. Give the client a bill, rush him out the door, and hope that it's too late by the time he discovers it. In this case, with the company going out of business, it worked exactly that way...

John,

I thought "Uh oh, Arnold Arms" when I read your first post.

jim

I purchased a Win 70 300 WSM Laminate model through a trade last year and just got around to setting up recently. It's being pillar bedded and having a trigger job now. The sharp edge to the chamber is on my factory barrel too. You cannot chamber a piece of fired factory brass( i put 4 rounds through it to see if it fed) It cuts a curl of brass from the body and stops right there. My gunsmith was amazed they put out like this and will break the edge for me. Lazy work at winchester.

I had a bad experiance with Arnold too.

Glad they are gone.

I walked in on a smith in Tulsa as he was re-barrelling a rifle for me. The threads looked like he had used a pipe threader for the job. When I got upset (kinda a understatement) and told him it was totally unacceptable, he got mad and said "that barrel can be MADE to work". If it could, it was on someone elses rifle as I took mine and went home. As the saying goes, the fellow finishing dead last in medical college is still called Doctor. The same is true for smiths and other professions.

[ 03-21-2003, 20:38: Message edited by: beemanbeme ]

I met the owners of Arnold Arms several years ago at a sportmans show in Seattle. Thought they were top notch. Glad I didn't buy any of their junk. They were expensive too. Live and learn.

Dan

John- What in the world did that smith run the
reamer in with? An air impact.Does this happen much in the business? I am an amateur smith
just doing my own chambering of my wildcats,
and I have done 5 right the first try..Oh, I'm probably slow as I do it by hand.Does this way
that I do it sound ok.I use T-handle and extension
and ream chamber with barrel on the action.I added
a bushing on the extension to keep it centered
in the back bridge of the action.No wobble in
movement of the reamer;It runs true.I check often
near end with gauge so only have to do it once.
All actions done so far checked out straight with
barrel and back bridge in line.Ed.

I can't see the photo; only the dreaded little red X... Hmmm??

Doug, Looks like hunting pictures is down, I just tried to access their site. If it does not come back up, let me know and I will email the photo to you.

Looks like whomever set this barrel back just had no idea of proper procedure. I am guessing he ran the reamer in too far, had too much headspace, set the barrel back another thread, ran the reamer in too far again, and etc. etc. The overall machining was poor, heavy tool marks on the cone, signs of both a dull tool, inproper feed & speed, no cutting oil, etc. Just another case of an inexperienced hand trying to do precision work.

Gentlemen,

Some of you might have missed this story. I am sure you will enjoy it.

Our First Job

I read that a couple of days ago,most amusing,very well written. Thank you to Saeed. derF

Anyone ever find duct tape? I did. The threads on the barrel were wrapped in duct tape to account for the lousy threading job. Made my blood run cold.

Bill---

I've found lead wool twice and Bondo once.

The neatest one was a fine wire wrapped in the bottom of the threads to take up space.

Keep posting this stuff. Makes me feel good.

I'm cheerfully crude, but I ain't never been close to this crude. Never charged half their prices, neither.

Next thing they'll be using Helicoils in the receiver. Looks like something I'd do not a proffesional.

John- You know Arnold Arms did not use a Lathe! This work was done by AXEL their lead gunsmith using his trusty drill press to hold the reamer. It has a pilot doesn't it! Axel always uses a pair od vice-grips to hold the barrel via the threads, then dresses them to perfection with his dremel tool! Cone- Thats also done by hand with the trusty dremel tool. It's all in the wrist! Extractor cut- Hacksaw and file- the only way!
When you can machine like he can and the gun goes boom without blowing up, thats an accuracy job! The guy is lucky Axel only charged him $400. Think of the time it took!-Rob

Hmmm....I own a Dremel, a hacksaw, and a file, guess that makes me a genuine, bonafide, certified gunsmith! Oh, wait, I also have some duct tape, I guess that makes me a master gunsmith!!!! Hey, I have a hammer, a big screw driver and vice grips! Boy, I am really well set!

[ 03-26-2003, 14:56: Message edited by: stans ]

I also had to fix a few of Arnold Arms screwups and I'm glad to see them gone also. One rifle that they re-barrelled had a chamber so rough that the ectactor would pull the rim off of the case before it would pull the case out. Oh, what fun!!

Gentlemen, to clear up a few things. I have never been employed by any gunsmithing operations in the Northwestern US. I do not own a Firestorm cordless drill, I use a Porter-Cable thank you very much. I do not possess a "dremel" tool either. I do own pneumatic die grinding set-ups, however.

I have not seen the pictures posted by Mr. Ricks, but based upon the comments it sounds as though they were pretty BAD. For the record I would like to say that certain Master Gunsmiths did do amazing things with files and hand reamers. These individuals were employed by such companies as Holland & Holland, James Purdy, Wesley Richards, John Rigby, Ausgust Francotte, etc, etc.

Jeffeosso, it is a Uni-Mat. This is a "jewellers" multi-purpose machine. It is in effect a miniature, high quality Smithy machine. My Uni-Mat was made in the late 60's. For small intricate work it is impressive. It cannot be used for barrel work or thread cutting, however.

Axel

I guess this falls into the old saying NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I CUT IT, IT IS STILL TO SHORT