I was snooping around various short-short actions, like the CZ-527 and Charles Daly mini-mauser, and got a little curious. Would any of these little actions be long enough for a cartridge 2.5" long? I know this might sound sick, but I'd like to find a tiny little bolt action to make a 250 savage on. I could use a standard short action, but the idea of a more compact package seems alluring.
There is an article by Boddington in this months Rifle Shooter about the .250 Savage. Apparently the old Weatherby Varmitmaster action is one of the shortest around and the Savage will fit. Would be a sweet little rig.
NoCAL
Posts: 167 | Location: Woodland, CA USA | Registered: 11 February 2002
The .250 Savage might pose some problems with the bolt face, and would definately be crowded in overall length in any of the mini-actions (Kimber 84, Mini Mark X, Sako L 461, etc.) Some .25 caliber alternatives would be a .25/222 magnum (.25x47mm), .25 Remington (perhaps shortened and improved), or a .25 PPC. In another thread, a number of posters validated that Sako built many of it's factory .22 and 6mm PPC's on the L 461 action, so a .25 wildcat on the PPC case would obviously work also.
I really like your idea of a game rifle on a mini action and am planning to get one of the Charles Daly Mini Mark X's in 7.62x39 if they ever make it to the dealers' shelf (the Daly website says they're expected in July). If you used the same action Daly uses for the 7.62x39, you could barrel it for a .25 PPC without any other alteration.
Posts: 13274 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
I had the same urge and that's why I'm having two 527 carbines rebbled to 6 mm and 6.5 mm PPC. With 20" bbls velocity should be reasonable and they will really be handy.
Posts: 915 | Location: Breckenridge, TX, USA | Registered: 24 November 2001
One of the nicest old-style custom rifles I've ever had in my hands was a Bob Owen rifle in .250 Savage that was built around 1940 or thereabouts. It was beautifully made and finished, and it was based on a commercial Mauser 98 "K" (for "kurtz" or short) action. The "K" action was created specifically for cartridges like the .300 Savage and .250 Savage back in the days when those cartridges were widely popular.
The trouble is, I wouldn't know where to find a commercial Mauser "K" action today, and even if you found a complete rifle to buy for the action, the cost would be extremely high.
You might want to consider buying a current Model 70 that's in .308 or .243 to strip for the action. This should work perfectly for a custom .250 Savage.
I am working on a wildcat ( search here for thread on .416 TAS ) for the Mini Mark X. The Mini Mark X is the largest of the true mini actions next in size are the kurz Mauser as mentioned and the Kimber 84m. The Mauser is tough to find and expensive to buy. The 84m is a bit larger since it is targeted for the .308 family of cartridges, but is the smallest action for this family.
The Mini Mark X has a magazine box of 2.38" in the longest .22-250 version. Since the .22-250 is based on the .250 Savage this version will handle either the .250 or .300 savage case, bullet selection will be limited to light weights or blunt noses due to the need to stay with the .22-250's C.O.L..
If you like classic Mausers, I would strongly suggest a Mexican Mauser which is beautifully proportioned for the 250 (short-medium length, small ring). The medium-length M-70 or L-579 Sako should work well too.
Posts: 9487 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 11 January 2002
The L-461 will not work...I don't believe the Mark X mini will work properly, it might.....
You can use a Wby small action and its nice or you could cut a small ring G33/40 in half and tig it back together short and make a neat little Mauser for the 250-3000...I have a G33-40 action for sale if anyone needs one, and Jack Belk is pretty handy at that job of shortening.
I have built a 25-223 on the markx and the L-461 and you can get pretty close to the 250 Savage balistics...
Posts: 42314 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
quote:Originally posted by allen day: One of the nicest old-style custom rifles I've ever had in my hands was a Bob Owen rifle in .250 Savage that was built around 1940 or thereabouts. It was beautifully made and finished, and it was based on a commercial Mauser 98 "K" (for "kurz" or short) action. The "K" action was created specifically for cartridges like the .300 Savage and .250 Savage back in the days when those cartridges were widely popular.
Actually, for the 6,5 x 54 Mauser and the 8 x 51 Mauser. Both extinct. If one wants a good modern short action, why not take the Sabatti Rover 600 ?
Regards, Carcano
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
The Kurtz Mauser was made first for the 300 Savage and was later offered in European calibers. The largest majority of complete Mauser rifles on this action were 250/3000s.
quote:Originally posted by JBelk: The Kurz Mauser was made first for the 300 Savage and was later offered in European calibers. The largest majority of complete Mauser rifles on this action were 250/3000s.
Thanks for setting me straight ! I am glad to learn.
Regards, Carcano
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
I have some 7mm TCU(blown-out .223 case) cartridges with 140 grain nosler-partitions that measure 2 1/2" or slightly less. I also have the same with 140 grain balistic-tips seated way out that measure 2 3/4 inches. Something on a .223 case will work in those mini-mausers. John Wooters developed a .25 wildcat called the .25-222 copperhead. He was getting 2,455 ft/sec with 100 grain bullet out of a 19 3/8" barrel.
Just for the record, I'm looking to get 2900-3000 fps with a 100 grn Hornady Interlock. This will be a pure deerslayer, no varmint loads will be used in this gun. Basically, I want "lungs-turned-to-mush" kind of performance. I may decide to use Ballistic Tips, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
The .250 Savage should fit the Mini Mark X with .25 flat points or roundnoses in 100 grains, but in pointed types or heavier weights I thik you would be too long. An easy way to get essentially the same cartridges, yet increase your bullet options, is to use .300 Savage cases necked to .25. I know that this sounds just like a .250 Savage, but the .300 case is actually slightly shorter and fatter than the .250 for a shorter COL and a tiny bit more capacity. You could even trim the neck a bit, since one diameter is enough for jacketed bullets.
Some 20 years ago I built three 6X47 (222RemMag case) Sako Vixens with 20" very light contoured Shilens. 6lbs +- scoped with highly figured walnut. Scopes were Leopold compacts. Built for my Dad and Uncles primarily for blacktail deer.
Good shooters but finicky to load. Very effective on blacktail.
What I really wanted at the time was to put a 250-3000 in a mini-action. The bug has again bitten and here are how my thoughts have been progressing.
Useing the Daly mini-Mauser chamber with a 250-3000 reamer cutting chamber short for mini-Mausers max OAL Shorten 250 dies to match.
Use 250 AI as above. This will lessen bolt thrust and increase powder capacity. Toss same dies in wife's self-cleaning oven for three hours then shorten and ream for 250AI.
Having deviated this much from the 250-3000 why not just drop the pretence and chamber for a PPC, neck and throat like a 250.
Wally
Posts: 472 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 08 March 2002
If you don't mind paying the price, Kimber of OREGON made a few (6 ?) M 84 Big Bores. These were chambered in the .250 Savage and also the .35 Remington. Note this was the original M 84 action NOT the new 84M. An original in this caliber might be too rare to shoot, but they are out there and that proves to my mind that the original Kimber 84 action would work.
Second and best option IMO would be to build on the new Kimber 84M. This would give you plenty of length and also the weight and overall size you desire. Futhermore, you wouldn't have to do any work on the bolt face or the extractor.
If you absolutetly must have the mini size action then go for a different cartridge. .25-.223 or .25 PPC.
Gabe
Posts: 410 | Location: Granite City, WI | Registered: 10 March 2003
Fireplug, If I measured correctly, you cannot open the bolt face up on the Mini mag Mark 10 type for a 250 Sav and it isn't long enough, no room to open it up and as far as I know it was made for the 223, not the 22-250...
I have a L-461 and it will barely accept a 6x45 but that would also apply for a 25/223 and you might get pretty close to 2900 with it.
Have you considered a Ruger No. 1? It would make a dandy 250 Sav. I have also had a Mexican Mauser (308 length) in 250 Sav. and it made up into a neat manlicher....
Posts: 42314 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
quote:Originally posted by Atkinson: Fireplug, If I measured correctly, you cannot open the bolt face up on the Mini mag Mark 10 type for a 250 Sav and it isn't long enough, no room to open it up and as far as I know it was made for the 223, not the 22-250...
I have a L-461 and it will barely accept a 6x45 but that would also apply for a 25/223 and you might get pretty close to 2900 with it.
Have you considered a Ruger No. 1? It would make a dandy 250 Sav. I have also had a Mexican Mauser (308 length) in 250 Sav. and it made up into a neat manlicher....
Daly mini-Mauser now offered with .223, PPC and 22-250 bolt.
Wally
Posts: 472 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 08 March 2002
My wild idea for a little action is a wildcat based on the .50 cal Beowulf round. Brockman Arms has these in the CZ 527. It is a longer .50AE case with the rim rebated back to 7.62x39 head diameter. Probably can't be run to high pressures. I wonder if the dimensions are close enough to use a .300 WSM reamer (held out part way of course) and rechamber an existing .311 barrel to that Beowulf parent case. I don't know what they have to do to magazines to make them work. www.brockmansrifles.com
Posts: 92 | Location: Western PA | Registered: 06 July 2002
FWIW - Remington made their 1984 Classic in .250 Savage. I had one in my hands at a gun show last year. Don't remember what length action it was built on however.
quote:Originally posted by Bob Mehaffey: I had the same urge and that's why I'm having two 527 carbines rebbled to 6 mm and 6.5 mm PPC. With 20" bbls velocity should be reasonable and they will really be handy.
Anyone know how to get a hinged floorplate for the 527?
Wally
Posts: 472 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 08 March 2002
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