Rem 700 BDL in 223.
Shoots 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 groups. I think it should do sub MOA in fact I don't have any scoped bolt guns that shoot this poor.
It has Douglas SS sporter weight barrel and the smith that installed it said he trued the action.
Laminate stock with AL bedding block has been bedded. Tried various pressure points on barrel.
I have tried several different powders, bullets, weights. Swapped scopes, checked mounts.
I have been tweaking this rifle for three years and most of the above have yielded incremental improvements in accuracy but I have run out of ideas on what to do next. Any thoughts?

Did you lap the bedding block? I have found that most of these are not round and induce stress. I know you said you bedded it, but if it is not round it won't matter. What twist is it and what bullets have you tried?

Put dykem on the barrel lug and reassemble. Check to see if the lug is bottoming out or has contact on the front or sides. Check the crown. This is where I usually start. There are almost limitless possibilities but this is where I would start.

Have the barrel trimmed back by a professional 1/4".

That is one of the things one company does to its semiauto if it does not shoot good...

Changes the barrel vibrations/harmonics.

This will also true up the crown.

The barrel is a 1 in 9. Have tried Nosler, Barnes, Berger in every weight from 35 to 75gr. Have tried H335, H4895 BLC(2) and a couple of other powders along with different primers, etc. Also tried Rem FMJ factory loads.
Have not checked the barrel lug for flatness but it is not touching on the sides or bottom.
The action was trued and a target crown cut when the barrel was installed but that is the only work that I have ever had done by that particular smith so maybe I should take it to someone else and have his work checked?

Trigger? A crap trigger makes for crap groups.

bum barrel= not the first one by anymeans

Something is wrong with the bore or the chamber.

Trigger is good, adjusted to 2 3/4lbs.
I guess I'll have to revisit the bedding and have barrel recrowned. Only other option I can see is to send it off to the smith that builds my hunting rifles and have him go through it but that usually takes 6 months and lots of $$$$.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Something is wrong with the bore or the chamber.

It's an air-gauged Douglas, do you think they would warranty it?

[/QUOTE]
It's an air-gauged Douglas, do you think they would warranty it?[/QUOTE]

They just might. I'd at least give them a call, worst they can say is no.

BT,

Have a Mdl70 in .300WM, similar problem, just would not shoot, no mater what combination of bullets, power etc. you fed it. Had it recrowned. Solved what was troubling this rifle.

Best of luck
Carl

Are the groups erratic or consistant?
How did you check the scope mounts/rings?
I had a brand new 270 Win. in M-70 that wouldn't shoot any better than 1-3/4 MOA very erratic groups. Had the same bases and rings you do,(Redfield/Leupold twist in front). Took the rifle to a g-smith. He put a bore sight in the barrel and pushed down on the scope with his finger. Front twist in ring had movement in it due to not having enough contact surface after the twist. Took the rings and bases off and installed Weaver style rings and bases. Problem solved. Rifle now shoots consistantly less than MOA with factory barrel.

I would check that first then call Dougless or recrown.

Just a suggestion.

I presume that you have tried different bullet seating depths?

Have you checked the concentricity of the loaded round? Of the fired brass? I would do a chamber cast of the throat area(wrong pilot on the reamer can cause an oblong throat), crown as mentioned, just for the fun of it shoot a group using only the front action screw, that will tell if bedding is the issue, the shape of the groups? Can you feel any rough spots in the bore while cleaning? Bolt handle touching the stock so not closing completely, does the handle "jump" significantly while dry firing?
Does the front mount screw "clear" the barrel extension? One more, make sure the bolt nose is not touching the barrel.

Groups are consistently round. The bore seems smooth. It didn't shoot well with the factory barrel or stock and that is why I have changed those which brings me back to the action. Maybe have a reputable smith go through that again?
It started out life with the factory barrel and factory plastic stock. Since it was spraying bullets into about 3 MOA and the barrel was 1 in 14 I switched that first and the installer lapped the lugs on the bolt.
It shot better but was consistently 1 1/2 or 2 inches at 100yds.
I bedded the factory stock and that brought it down to 1 1/2 to 1 1/4 or so. All of this while trying different powders, primers, bullets, seating depths (each one at a time) and scopes.
Then I put on the laminate stock and when that didn't solve it I bedded that.
While not a gumsmith I have been doing this for over 40 years and this one has me baffled.
I think at this point I will check loaded and fired cases for concentricity to eliminate bad chamber and/or dies, swap the mounts, check the bedding then have it recrowned and action checked.

Lap the barrel; yes it is smooth, as all Douglas's are, but sometimes lapping will fix such problems. There is a theory that barrels can be too smooth. I had a Shilen that did the same thing and it tightened up after lapping. The factory won't do anything; too many variables to "warrant" them. If that doesn't work, get another barrel.

Do you have another Rem SA that you can borrow the firing pin assembly from and try a group. If the factory barrel shot poorly and now a replacement barrel is shooting poorly the action appears to be the culprit. A week mainspring or a cocking piece dragging on the action, or if the cocking piece is hitting the cocking ramp, anything that could possible slow the fall of the firing pin or change the lock time, like a small piece of brass, dirt, etc.
Erratic ignition will yield poor groups.
Has all the ammo been handloads, could it be a batch of poor primers? Too bad you are so far away this would be a fun day of research to find the why.

Recrown was my first thought.

A cheap diagnostic trick is the limbsaver Sharpshooter X-Ring.

X-Ring

I have put these on a couple guns and it brought the accuracy within acceptable parameters, dropping groups from 1.5" down to 3/4-1" If you have a crown issue, the Xring won't help. If you have harmonics/vibration issue, XRing might/should help.

It's a cheap place to start. Plus, when you are done you can put it on other guns to improve their accuracy.

Thanks for all the input and ideas. I ordered a set of Weaver bases and rings just to see if it might be a mount problem. I have some JB bore rouge around somewhere so I will then lap the barrel. Haven't checked concentridity of brass, loads yet but will do although factory loads are worse than reloads. If none of that yields results I will recrown and have the action rechecked.
If I find that any of the above solves the problem I will post here. The adventure continues...

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Recrown was my first thought.

A cheap diagnostic trick is the limbsaver Sharpshooter X-Ring.

X-Ring

I have put these on a couple guns and it brought the accuracy within acceptable parameters, dropping groups from 1.5" down to 3/4-1" If you have a crown issue, the Xring won't help. If you have harmonics/vibration issue, XRing might/should help.

It's a cheap place to start. Plus, when you are done you can put it on other guns to improve their accuracy.

This would be my bet too! Recrown it!

What loads are you shooting?

My go to load is Sierra load manual 77 grain Match King with 24.1 grains of RE15. Good for AR-15 mag-length or just short of the lands.

Are you seating your bullets close to the lands? Perhaps the barrel throat is too far out compared to your magazine length and you have a ton of "jump" to the lands?

Otherwise, I'd bet on the crown as well.

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
What loads are you shooting?

My go to load is Sierra load manual 77 grain Match King with 24.1 grains of RE15. Good for AR-15 mag-length or just short of the lands.

Are you seating your bullets close to the lands? Perhaps the barrel throat is too far out compared to your magazine length and you have a ton of "jump" to the lands?

Otherwise, I'd bet on the crown as well.

Have tried Nosler, Barnes, Berger in every weight from 35 to 75gr. Have tried H335, H4895 BLC(2) and a couple of other powders along with different primers, etc. Also tried Rem FMJ factory loads.
All of this and seated bullets from full contact to .075 off in .005 increments.
I played with it a bit yesterday, checked the bedding and relieved a few spots, checked concentricity of fired and loaded rounds which were OK, pulled the mounts off and retightened, cleaned the bore.
I'll shoot it to see if any of that helped, if it didn't, I'll get it recrowned.

Goofy scope maybe?

I've seen it happen and it can drive you nuts! And it was a Leupold scope that did it to me.

The update:
After cutting an inch off the barrel and recrowning didn't yield any results, I took the barrel off and sent it back to Douglas. They said they couldn't find any problems with the barrel but replaced it anyway. While I am still doing some load development, it now shoots 35gr Nosler Etips and Barnes 62gr TSX into 1/2 - 3/4 3 shot groups at 100 yards
This was quite an adventure but I can't say enough about Douglas for replacing this barrel under warranty. Sure it would have been nice and saved a lot of aggravation and money if the first barrel would have shot but they stepped up to the plate in the end.

Did you check magazine box for contact also bolt and trigger group for stock contact and front scope mount screws for contact on barrel.

Before you give up on this rifle you should try some 55 grain Hornady Interlok bullets and Benchmark powder. It seems to be the ticket for every 223Rem I have seen it shot in.

Blacktailer,

It was awesome that douglas replaced it. I read years ago about a competition shooter that did his own smithing. He'd install a barrel and right off if it didn't shoot well he tossed it aside and did another. Seems like even in the same batch of barrels some shoot better than others.

Red

I had a similar experience with a Douglas barrel a while back. Through the borescope, I could see an area with noticable toolmarks which were from the reaming operation. I lapped the barrel and it now shoots very well. I bought a Lothar Walther barrel which had the same problem except that it shot worse. Again, lapping cured the barrel and it is now a solid performer. Regards, Bill.