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what is more accurate? re; high stan' supermatic tropy military model 8" barrel. or hammerli target pistol? cold zero  any thoughts/ cold zero | ||
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Cold Zero- Both are nice pistols, if you get the right High Standard. IIRC, they (High Standard) changed hands 3 times, and each time the quality went downhill. *IF* you can find an older one in good shape, you will pay dearly for it and have a good gun. Look a the location of manufacture, and stay away from the ones from Texas. I've shot against the Hammerli's quite a bit, they are as good as the shooter. | |||
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shane; i picked up a high standard supermatic trophy model 107 military from hamden, conn. mentioned above with very few rounds thru it, cheap too. i met a guy this week in sonora mexico with a very nice hammerli who told me it was way better than a high standard. his pistol was nice. but, i thought that the h.s. was the best. would like to hear some opinions. cold zero  | |||
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In the distant past  I used both of these plus the High Standard Victor, S&W M41, and Colt Woodsman Match Target for bullseye matches and later for rimfire silhouette. In testing from the bench with their favorite ammo there not a lot of difference between any of them with the possible exception of the Colts (in either barrel length) which gave slightly larger groups. If pressed for best mechanical accuracy I would have to say that the Hammerli and the S&W were best at shooting good groups with a wider range of different brands of ammo than the others.In bullseye matches I was able to score slightly better with the Hammerli and the Victor, with a slight edge to the Hammerli. I also shot some rimfire bowling pin matches, and the Colt was faster pointing, and consequently gave better scores since speed was more important than absolute accuracy. Later High Standards did not group nearly as well as the older guns (nor did they function as well out of the box), as has been stated above. Jim | |||
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mbogo375- Those Smith 41's are very nice, as are the others you listed. I used to shoot a Pardini, wish I could afford one now. I can't remember which High Standard was the better of the two, there were some made in Conn and I belive some made in Mass. I know the Texas ones are trash, good that you didn't get that. If I had even money on both the H-S and Hammerli, I'd take the Hammerli, but it isn't an easy pick. Both *can* be good guns, I just can't remember right now which is the better location on the H-S. The good ones are collectors items now, like the 41's and Woodsman's. | |||
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mbogo375, I have a model 41 that has a jamming problem. Had it to two different gunsmiths, spent near $150.00(new sear,breech block,extractor,and all new springs) and it still isn't reliable. It either stovepipes or fails to extract. Rarely can I get through a clip without a problem. I've tried a variety of ammo and that doesn't seem to matter. Any ideas? Stepchild | |||
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Quote: First, I am certainly not a gunsmith, so my thoughts are worth about what they cost-nothing  .By stovepipeing I am assuming (bad thing to do  ) that the empty is stovepiping, not the loaded round in feeding from the mag (which would likely be a problem with the feed lips). I also assume that you have tried different magazines, and the magazines don't extend high enough above the frame to interfere with extraction and ejection. I am also assuming that your gunsmiths checked that the ejector is in good condition and is working properly. If these are correct assumptions, I will offer a few possibilities, but by all means not everything. I have seen a number of 22 rf target pistols show extraction and ejection troubles from a problem as common as a dirty or rough chamber. Thoroughly clean with solvent and a brush and see if this helps. Also clean with solvent and brush the area around the extractor, and the bolt face. Be sure that the extractor moves freely, and that the spring is actually strong enough to maintain contact with the rim of the case, but that it will still release the case as it hits the ejector.Second, check the rear edge of the chamber at the spot where the firing pin hits the case rim. If it has been dry fired enough there may be a small burr in the edge of the chamber that could be resisting the extraction of the fired case enough to cause these problems. In more severe cases this can even cause misfires. Third, be sure that the extractor has enough room in the little recess at the rear of the barrel to touch only the rim of the case. If it touches the barrel it may not have the opportunity to grab the rim of the case properly on extraction. Fourth, if the recoil spring is too strong it may be retarding the rearward movement of the bolt. Also, if the bolt and frame rails are not smooth and well lubricated (or if they are too tightly fitted) this could be retarding rearward bolt movement. If none of the above suggestions improve things let me know and we will delve further into the wonderful world of 22 rf target pistols . These suggestions are applicable to most 22 rf semiautos, but every firearm is an individual as we all know. In at least some cases with a blowback action like a 22 rf the case will be forced out of the chamber on firing even if the extractor is removed as long as the chamber is smooth and the bolt moves freely. I found this out by shooting a friend's Winchester Model 63 that had the whole front of the extractor broken off, but it fed and ejected fine as long as you fired the cartridge (not great if you wanted to remove an unfired cartridge though  ). I then tried this with a couple of other 22 rf semiautos just as an experiment and they did the same thing. Just goes to show that nothing is set in stone with firearms.Good luck, Jim | |||
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Jim, I appreciate your reply. The stovepipes were empties. I'll delve into it a little deeper and hopefully get it corrected. I have a 101 High Standard that never has a problem, regardless of ammo brand. Kind of like a Timex. Dennis | |||
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That's not really a fair comparison. It's like, say, comparing a Marlin .22 trainer (which might have a very accurate barrel, too) to an Ansch�tz 2003. The H�mmerlis belong to the world's top notch target pistols (from Agner to Ziegenhahn), of Olympic and World Championship fame. The High Standards are advanced middle class. Regards, Carcanp | |||
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Carcano- Hammerli now produces a trail gun for the masses through Sig. They are not the same as the competition grade beuties that they also produce. You are correct, Hammerli competition grade is NICE stuff, but if you are comparing with S&W 41's, tricked out Rugers, High Standards, etc, the Hammerli trail gun will fit in fine. FWIW, I have shot against guys who shot Rugers and H-S, and some of them can do very well against the big guns. | |||
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