I am going to start yet another project...

I am going to make a Les Brooks Stock duplicator, and just ordered some 5x2x3/16 rec. tube for the frame...

I bet it takes me 6 months, and I want one.

jeffe

Jeffe

Definitely keep us posted on how it�s going. I for one am very interested.
What do you think about the CD Mr. Brooks sent you? Is it easy enough for an idiot like me to build one of these contraptions? About what do you think its gona cost? Do a good job so I can ask you lots of questions latter. Good luck.

Shawn

Shawn,
the CD seems to be good enough for me to do it... then again, i am stubborn and clever.. most of the time TOO clever for my own good.

I think anyone with a fairly decent skillset, and good measuring tools, could do this.... I am not going to follow perdactly Les's design... but so close that I think he'll be happy withit.

jeffe

Jeffe,

I'll say one thing, you aint scared of it.

I want one too.

By the way, what ya think it will cost.

Billy,
scared? What's that mean?

Using all metal, and not including the router, and including linear bearings (yeah, i am going to at least draw it up that way) roughly 600, depending.

If you did his exact design, with rec tube, I think you could, with buying the pieces NEW, get out for 400, plus the router... if you have access to some 6" or 5" rec tube or ibeam, that would knock 100-150 off

jeffe

Jeffe, I've been looking at the various websites that offer kits (M.L. Greene comes to mind) and was promptly shocked by the price... What did Les charge for the Disc? I was thinking about getting one to build at a later date as I don't have a formal workshop right now(lathe in the garage, mill in the basement, etc) I'm in the "aqquire print and design" mode so once I do have room, I'm ready to make chips. Any other leads for interesting projects would be appreciated also. Personally, I like design books and Blueprints better than kits, because most of the time I see ways of making significant improvements.

Toolmaker

Toolmaker

I thought some greenie fella was on ON DRUGS for the prices of completed and kits... I can buy a NEW cnc mill for 10k not a great one, but one anyway.. in fact, i could buy and refit a boss series II 7, 8, 9, or 10 for less than 10k

Les charges a VERY reasonable amount for his CD (email him and ask.. mine was 20 bucks)

He does not provide a full set of blueprints.. in fact, he provides only drawings for details.. which works great for me, as I don't want an arhitect telling me how to do gunsmithing, aebe.

He's a stand up, great fella, and the cd is a great help.

jeffe

Aaahh, another one who lusts after CNC, but I wouldn't touch a Boss with a ten meter cattle prod - they are the worst designed CNC Mill I've ever seen. I'm trying to get my mitts on a Haas VMC, but with the way manufacturing has taken off, the used stuff has gone up dramatically at auction - Two weeks ago, I saw a VF-3(1995) go for $25K at auction! Still, hope springs eternal. Do you have an Email address for for Les? I looked under his profile and there was none listed. Yeah, the price of the "kit" I looked at was steep at $5K but what do you expect from "niche" marketing? They pretty much got most potential customers over the barrel - not too many people own machine tools, let alone the design ability to come up with something. After I finish the stock duplicator, then I gotta build a rifling machine, then a hydraulic swaging press, then a.... Where does it end?

Toolmaker

Toolmaker,
I wouldn't want a BP series II RUNNING boss controls.. i want that iron as a platform for a servo/pc-cnc refit... the second i find a bp with boss 7,8,9, or 10, in great mechanical, but bad controls... well, non-working, as those controls are bad enough new, I am all over it.

I am certain Les will post his email here... and I'll look and see if i can find it.

I am trying to talk a friend of mine OUT of trying to make a rifle bore.... with the price of blanks being whatit is, it's just not cost effective...

captive audience or not, nearly 6 k, PLUS crating PLUS shipping, PLUS handling... that means I could pay a duplicator, at 150 (super high) a pop, for 40 stocks.. or, the guys ROI for the 10k machine, is 70 stocks, at a TOO high price... or really, 110 stocks.

jeffe

Les's email in minigun17@yahoo.com

and here's his summation of his machine
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=667891&Forum=f5&Words=les%20cd&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=666580&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=4366&daterange=1&newerval=10&newertype=w&olderval=3&oldertype=w&bodyprev=#Post667891

jeffe

Jeffe, Yeah, the Boss is a HORRIBLE controller, the Iron isn't too bad, If ya want a CNC knee mill, I'd look at a Tree Journeyman, I saw a pair go for 4500 each at an auction last year. I ain't terribly fond of manual 'ports either, that &^#$%^ universal head does everthing but stay tru when you take a heavy cut. A friend of mine just leased a building for his machinery sales business and I got roped into rigger duty and discovered just how heavy a Cincinati toolmaster is compared to a 'port 2J. It is a much stiffer machine and comes with a 40NMTB spindle. I may end up subleasing space from him if a deal on a good CNC VMC comes along. Who's control would you use, one of those ones the hobbiest use? Or something like a Siemans 840D? I really like the Siemans, but I have no idea of whether or not they are available for retrofit or how much they cost(I assume $$$$$). I was kidding about the barrel making - I watched Bill Webb's video and decided I really don't want to spend my time making custom tooling for each caliber.. As for the "captive audience" remember what PT Barnum said: "There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take them"

Toolmaker

If i can find the machine I want, i am planning on like an www.ahha.com or an ajax... i might just build a dc ps and use rutex drives.. depending. Remember, mine will be for gunsmithing stuff... and a huge part in gunsmithing weigh 10 # to start... I honestly want to build a boss and 4th axis, to make fancy barrels...



ah, well, there's time enough for all that fun inthe future..

one thing i dont want to do is CONVERT a manual to cnc.. jsut about too much hassle factor.. by the time you buy the ballscrews and motors, you'll have what a used 'nother machine would cost.



a tree>? not if it has the tree taper... I have a really good set of r8 tools.. and since i am not going to do anything but small parts, i can live with the tool change time.



the ajax, for a complete refit of a servo bp, including pendant and 2000line (8000 steps pre rotation) encoders, is less than 4k

Jeffe, Don't dismiss manuals out of hand, every once in a while ya see one with ballscrews. I do agree with you about having to add them - last time I looked, they were around a grand. The Tree mills were a standard taper, BT40 If I remember correctly. My problem with R8 isn't the quick change(you can get that with R8 anyway) it's with it's decided lack of rigidity... R* just isn't stiff enuff for my tastes.. As for controls, what you plan sounds good for your intended use and budget - I did a quick looky loo and from what I've seen the Siemans control is five figures, but it does support up to 8(!) drive amplifiers and can use linear scales (no more thermal drift, Yay!) When you start this project, try to find out how the 4th axis interface works - I've seen some setups that use a servo control which is hooked into the main CNC control through the use of M function relays. This only provides fourth axis positioning and not true 4th axis motion for milling. The reason I mention it is because the positioning setup isn't nearly as versatile as the 4th axis directly controlled by the controller and it may not be suitable for what you intend.

Toolmaker

You fellas might consider Haas' option on a toolroom mill...Here's a link to what I'm talking about.

toolroom mill

They start at $20,000.00, but it's a helluva machine for the money, plus it has the advantage of manual work as well.
More rigid than a knee mill, allowing climb milling, which will give you superior finishes.
Just a thought

Jeffe,

Its a thought but not in the cards for me just right now, down the road maybe will see how yours goes. Whats really funny........I could probably do a better job at fabricating a duplicating machine than I am at inletting stocks. But once I got it built it would be no a doubt a monkey with a football.

I got to get better at inletting, seems like the more I do the worse I get.

Many yrs ago I new a guy by the name of Clyde Fisher, was a knife maker and stock maker Victoria Texas, well known knife maker at that point in time, he made Mesquite stocks. He started building his own duplicator, but lost track of him, guess I'll never know if he every got his duplicator built.