The gun is an original Parker 20 ga VH grade. The mechanical condition seems OK and it shoots well enough.

But the stock has had it and I want to replace it with one made to order. Best grade English walnut. There would be some other modifications like a thicker pistol grip. I also would not be adverse to a new forearm. And I'd want a re-blue, and it'll need a new or repaired trigger guard. The inside mechanics I'd like closely inspected before doing anything.

That's what I have in mind. Can you guys provide a list of the best for this project, listed in order of preference? And how long should it take? And about what price do you think is fair?

I don't want a good general practitioner gunsmith. Someone who has successfully done a lot of what's described is preferred.

David Norin (davenoringunmaker.com) is very good at "restoration". If you really want a new stock you might consider one of the better stock makers. Otherwise, Norin might be able to bring your old stock back. He restored a single shot rifle for me. Besides taking 75 years off the stock and checkering, he re-cut barrel lettering, fixed up worn engraving, re-blacked the barrel, built and soldered on a front sling swivel eye, fixed the front sight, tightened up the loose lever, and a few other things. The only thing he didn't do was the case coloring. That was done by Turnbull's.

He took my 1903 Rigby from this:



To this:

talk to jim kobe, but be aware there will sticker shock when you talk of redoing a parker - they are one SOB of a job

http://parkershotgunrepair.com/

these guys are the Number ONE parker restoration shop. As already stated, be ready for sticker shock- in a big way. I'm currently working on a Parker for a customer and thankfully he is being very patient... and Butchloc is correct- these guns are a SOB...

Tom Smith of Wesson Ohio is a great stock maker. Don't think he will do metal but has friends. 419 669 3504

I'd start off the search with a discussion with Chic Worthing. He goes by Customstox here on AR. His website is Chic's Site

quote:

Originally posted by TNTFirearms:
and Butchloc is correct- these guns are a SOB...

I've restocked 8-10 L.C.Smiths but never a Parker. What makes them more difficult than any other boxlock? Aside from the unnecessarily complicated mechanicals, that is? I'm not trying to pick a fight (grin), just curious.

Larry Del Grego has always been viewed by the masses as the 'go-to' man for Parker restorations, but IMO that's mainly due to his own promotion of his own rep. IMO you'd be paying a lot for his name 'cause again IMO his work is OK but not in the same class as Dave Norin's. JMOFWIW.

However the gunshowshark folks really like to use his name (even if they don't know how to spell it or pronounce it, grin) and it sometimes seems as though avery refinished Parker was done by 'Dale Grego'(!?)

If you have LDG do the restoration or restock work, I STRONGLY sugggest that you get a letter of authentication from them, for your heirs.
Regards, Joe

Thanks for the suggestions so far. They're excellent.

Yes, what does make the Parker so difficult to work on?

Aside from that, I should have added something else I'd be interested in doing. I prefer either semi or full beavertail forearms to the Parker style splinter. Anyone have some idea if that's feasible and if some of the splinter metal furniture can be incorporated?

Also, Parkers are very slim thru the grips. Too much so. I'm thinking a new stock needs to be beefier to fit me better. But, how hard is that to do and where does that leave the original grip cap?

Finally, I found a restored restocked 20 ga VH on the net, at a place well known to all, about like what I'm interested in here. It's roughly $5K.

But the gun I had in mind I'd have to purchase first, for about a $1K. That means if all the work amounted to $4K I could just buy this other one and be done with it. So, I'll make some inquiries, but do you guys think $4K should more than cover a whole new stock, a semi or full beavertail forearm, re-bluing and new trigger guard?

Finally, if I'm looking at a $5K project here, there's another option. Shop around for a Model 21 instead, which is the only shotgun in the world I'd rather have than a Parker.

Btw, the gun's purpose would be quail, mostly preserve shooting. Second btw, I just sold a modern Grade II BS/S to start raising funds for this project.

If you hafta pay $4K or more for a new stock & forearm and blue job with new TG, then IMO you better insist on a couple of French maids to go along with it!

New stock labor = ~$2500-$3000 plus wood cost
New rust blue with new TG = ~$750. IMO these are max prices for well-known professional-level work, but probably not enough to pay the ransom for the 'magic' Del Grego name (sarcastic grin).

And yes the original forearm furniture can be re-used and yes the beavertail is very doable but often ends up quite bulky and yes the wrist/grip can be made to any dimension you desire and will still look stunning IF you choose your smith wisely.
Good luck and regards, Joe

I have stocked Parkers, Smith's, Win. 21,A.H. Fox, orignal Chas Daley and Ithaca doubles. If you are wanting to make a beavertail forearm you will need someone that can rebuild the latching lever to fit a thicker forearm. The problem with the Parker is the alignment of the push rod that make the safety operate correctly. It is one that has very little play room around the center top action screw bushing. The bushing has to be carefully installed in order for the top screw to meet the bottom location. The bushing also must keep the action tight in place. The Parker is not an easy job to do even for someone that has done these. Every time when I had to do a stock on a Parker I would wish that I had made the jig to drill the safety push rob hole.

The last Parker that I recall stocking was in 1978. I restocked as original butt and forearm, rust blue the metal parts all for $1000 which I thought was a fair price back then.

Les (or anyone), do you think then that the idea of a beavertail (semi, or like the Model 21 rather than fat like a Browning) forearm is probably asking too much or risking a build that might take forever with disappointing results?

Also, with the Parker (the VH forearm you know is different than the Trojan grade) which would you favor? Restoring the original splinter and trying to match new wood for the stock? Or building both new splinter forearm and stock of the same wood?

The original stock is shootable, but is too short and doesn't fit me, has a worn out rubber pad and looks terrible. The grip's manageable of course, but I don't like how skinny it is. That's the one real knock on Parkers I've ever had (I've owned several).

A majority of the stockers suggested are ACGG members. They know their job. I also make stocks for shotguns. I believe J.D. is about four years behind on his estimate of a good job for Parkers though. No offense J.D. I built many at that price before I became aware o' time spent vs time billed. A good stocker will make the stock the way you need it made instead of just what the factory made.

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Earl Smith:
I believe J.D. is about four years behind on his estimate of a good job for Parkers though. No offense J.D. I built many at that price before I became aware o' time spent vs time billed.

I'm usually low on my $/time estimates so no offense taken. Apparently (when I choose to take a job) I charge about half of the norm so you guys don't need to pay too much atttention to my estimates. Maybe (probably) I'm just an old geezer who lives in the past.

I'm still curious about the comparative level of difficulty of restocking a Parker vs a Smith or other sidelock. How would you guys who have done both types compare the level of difficulty?

IOW are folks charging THAT much for sidelocks or perhaps even more?
Regards, Joe

I have no interest in new commissions so my comments are justs the fact as I see them.

A Parker such as the Trojan presents no more difficulty than about any other box lock out there.

Yes, side locks, especially something like the LC Smith will really make you earn your money

I have seen restocking jobs..., by known names that look damn nice on the outside, but inside they are shit. A pair of M-21's come to mind that were both totally unfunctional. Wood was in the way of working parts, no recoil abuttment..just a crappy job!

And...Joe needs to keep track of time spent to do a proper job..This is a profession that has it's own expertise and deserves to be compensated adequately.

Duane, a question if you've a mind to answer it. Could you give me three names of stockbuilders for this project you think would likely do it right and have it look good too?

It would be a plus if they could also do the mechanical work. That would make it "one stop shopping".

Oh, and can you explain what "recoil abuttment" requires in a gun like this.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
I have no interest in new commissions so my comments are justs the fact as I see them.

A Parker such as the Trojan presents no more difficulty than about any other box lock out there.

Yes, side locks, especially something like the LC Smith will really make you earn your money

I have seen restocking jobs..., by known names that look damn nice on the outside, but inside they are shit. A pair of M-21's come to mind that were both totally unfunctional. Wood was in the way of working parts, no recoil abuttment..just a crappy job!

And...Joe needs to keep track of time spent to do a proper job..This is a profession that has it's own expertise and deserves to be compensated adequately.

Thanks for your clarification, Duane. I too have stopped accepting most new work, long ago, but I guess that I love the work so much that I've always been inclined to charge too little. And of course it's been a LONG time since I had to earn a living solely by smithing, so....

Yes, to do a good job on a sidelock, IMO a fellow will surely hafta test his own skill limits. The Smith top lever spring installation for instance, one of the seemingly minor steps, takes a special approach for sure. And the recoil abutment in the typical sidelock is pretty well null & void until properly fitted and reinforced, as you stressed above. Witness all the damaged original Smith and sidelock Lefever stocks!

I'm glad to hear that the Parker isn't some deep dark special mystery, though. One of my best friends has a nice one that he wants restocked, and I've got a sinking feeling that I'm gonna get elected to do the work!
Regards, Joe

J.D. I have three L.C. Smiths and three Parkers I am working on now in the shop. The Parker has its challenges in the saftey location and in placing the automatic safety with the metal top lever tube insert. Everything else is just straight forward stocking as Duane says.The L.C. Smiths are interesting because one must make sure the inlettting is precise without being toooo much taken out. This design leaves very little room for errors. I found the latest major tome on L.C. Smith shotguns (Houtchin) to be very helpful in the assembly and disassembly. Hurrah for reference libraries!!! For those interested...David Travallion estimates it takes about 40-60 hours to inlet the buttstock and about the same to do a splinter forend....correctly....from a block

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Earl Smith:
J.D. I have three L.C. Smiths and three Parkers I am working on now in the shop. The Parker has its challenges in the saftey location and in placing the automatic safety with the metal top lever tube insert. Everything else is just straight forward stocking as Duane says.The L.C. Smiths are interesting because one must make sure the inlettting is precise without being toooo much taken out. This design leaves very little room for errors. I found the latest major tome on L.C. Smith shotguns (Houtchin) to be very helpful in the assembly and disassembly. Hurrah for reference libraries!!! For those interested...David Travallion estimates it takes about 40-60 hours to inlet the buttstock and about the same to do a splinter forend....correctly....from a block

Thanks for the reading suggestion! I like Smiths more than any other US gun, guess that's why I've stocked a few over the years. I know of 3 ways to handle the top-lever spring but am always open to new ideas!

FWIW I always reinforce the recoil abutments with hidden longitudinal rods epoxied into the stock's head. IMO just cheap insurance, and IT WORKS!

Also FWIW I agree with the buttstock time estimate but apparently I'm missing something on the forearm work 'cause it seems to go a lot quicker than the buttstock, at least for me it does.
Regards, Joe

Karma has struck again. Today at the gun show I steered a walk-in to my friend Grumpy the Gun Show Shark and he bought the fellow's V-grade 20 ga for $800. Super metal but needs a buttstock and guess who's on the hook for the work (rueful grin).

Guess I'll get to see for myself about Parker stocking difficulties. May need some helpful advice, we'll see.

BTW just to make you sick, last year I witnessed a walk-in sell a V-grade 28-ga for $600. Metal needed refinishing, but SO WHAT? Almost makes me kinda wish I liked Parkers....
Regards, Joe

J.D., suggestion....use the top lever and the rear tang screw holes for reference points in setting the safety. If you are off a little keep scraps of your stock blank to use as shim material in the resetting. Use Elmers white glue and the line is less visible. It is not always necessary to plug the entire hole and start over on this portion of the stock. Yes, I like L.C.'s as well. I like any stock as long as it is wood. Challenges just make it more interesting.

It sounds like you might be money ahead by plunking down the $$ on the gun in better condition, BUT, pay some extra$$to send it to one of the gentleman on this page for an evaluation of its condition.

I was lusting for a bespoke English gun. Bespoke in 1912 to someone else. The best $$ I ever spent was having a pro take it apart, put it back together and watch me shoot it. He said the action and stock need a lot of time/money/expertise. Go to Eibar or Val Trompia and get properly fitted for a Spanish best, Italian if you fancy O/Us.

Well, some folks from Eibar were passing through the states a few months later (with try stocks and hundreds of years of accumulated knowledge).

I fancied the AyA more, but I shot much better with the Garbi. So, I had a Garbi side lock in six months for $4,500.00 USD. It did not matter how tall the pheasant flew, or how fast the pigeons came around our local cliffs; the just died wholesale. It was a perfect union until I had to sell her. No good for rough hunting unless your dogs held the birds TIGHT.

Just some thoughts.