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I was browsing one of the forums and saw another post containg all the opinions about rifle reliability. Then I started thinking...there is a lot of data on handgun realiability from FBI, Military, and Police agency testing and the models tested are often quite similar to the civilian models. But I have never seen a single study of sporting rifles. You know we took three producion rem 700s, three win Mod 70s, and three ruger 77s and fired 1000 rounds thru each or some such test. Does any body know of any test at all on roduction sporting rifles to any serious extent? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Don't know of any data on what you suggest but P.O. Ackley did some over-load tests (for lack of a better term). Where by way over-loaded ammo was used to deliberately try to destroy the arm. As I recall some held together at tremendous (estimated) pressures while others came apart surprisingly easy. Don't have a source to the data but its got to still be around somewhere. An old man sleeps with his conscience, a young man sleeps with his dreams. | |||
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Do a DOD search. I believe the Remington 700 and the Winchester 70 have been tested to near exhaustion. Don't know about the Ruger 77... _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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There have been lots of "tests" done. WWI & II come to mind  . In Ackley's test, I think the Jap Arisaka came out with flying colors but who'd wanna use one. As for out of the box reliability, I like the old 98 Mausers FN 1948 & 51 etc. and some of the others based on them Huskys, etc. pre-64 Mod 70's & the early Ruger 77's. The early Sakos were great rifles too."You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Mike, what would be the parameters you'd expect to be covered by such a "reliability" test?? Feeding, extraction, accuracy, fouling, mechanical reliability, ergonomic features...???? (Or all of the above?). - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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"Mike, what would be the parameters you'd expect to be covered by such a "reliability" test?? Feeding, extraction, accuracy, fouling, mechanical reliability, ergonomic features...???? (Or all of the above?)" I would say everyhting you mentioned except ergonomics and fouling. Fouling is covered by consistent accuracy and ergonomics is what it is and can be adjusted by different stock configurations Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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If any gunmaker or gunmaking company is willing to give me a rifle I will test it. A year bouncing around in a feed truck shooting a coyotes and stray dogs should work. | |||
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Mike, check this thread: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=279102715#279102715 Maybe not what you were thinking of, but it was done to check how much preassure the action would take before ruin, and how that would affect the shooter. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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All, What I was refering to was as I tried to described in my original post. As an example, take ruger, a remington, a winchester. 3 each in each of 3 three calibers 375HH, 30-06, 22-250. 27 rifles in all. Run say 2000 rounds thru each, cleaning at maybe different intervals of 20, 50, 100, 200. A 1000 from the bench a 1000 from the field. Check for feeding, extraction, and accuracy Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I don't want to high jack this thread, but Brent, that thread you referred to was interesting, especially in the light of a much publicised recent event where someone left a bore sighter plug in the muzzle of his barrel with very photogenic results. The results there seemed to be much more catastrophic then the pictures shown in the thread you referred to. Why? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter, what incident was that? What rifle? Do you have any links? Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Has there ever been a real test done on sporting rifle reliability?
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