The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing What's going on at Brownells?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I understand they're involved in some sort of "move", but how long will it take? My last three orders all took more than a week to ship. On top of that they apparently have decided to not include an invoice in the shipments. How asinine is that? My last order was for over $1,000, included close to two-dozen items; I'm forced to look them all up again in the catalog in order to price them. You can't even print an invoice from their website. I called them and spoke to a supervisor who used her "supervisory over-ride" to email me an invoice but could not give me any assurance they would change their new policy and include invoices once again in their shipments. Maybe It's time for some competition, but I know that won't be easy. Larry Poterfield tried to take the professional gunsmith business but gave up on it rather quickly. Seems like Brownells is catering to the one-time and infrequent buyers. Anyone know more about this? John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | ||
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Midway hasn't sent me an invoice in a long time either. I spoke to an order person about it and they said it prevents wives from knowing what husbands spend. | |||
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When you place the order at Midway, there's a box you can check to request an invoice be included in the shipment. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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No invoice?? Remember my parts were the cheap ones.   As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Brownells is a sentimental favorite, but I find their Web site baffling. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Dealing with any business via the internet seems to always have issues. This week, 2 for 2 and both good companies with good products. I tried to order some gun parts from a manufacturer by phone, and they couldn't find items that were listed on their website. Yet couldn't order from the website because of other issues. Took a phone call and a couple of days for them to resolve it. Tried to order from another manufacturers website, and keep getting errors with their payment system and had to phone it in. Back to Brownells, can't your just print the invoice when you order or from the confirmation email? | |||
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I have never had any issues with Brownells. And my last three orders took a matter of 3 days. Of course, they are only 90 miles away. Invoice? I know what I ordered when I placed the order. | |||
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That's a glib reply. Those engaged in the business require invoices for their records. I print off a copy of the order when I place it online. Their website is and always has been less than helpful though.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I do not understand the Brownells bashing; I have been ordering stuff from them for decades before there was a website and have never had problems. | |||
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Brownells just moved into a brand new recently built facility. They are all getting used to new locations for items and systems for fulfilling orders. That being said, I have recently placed and received two orders from them in the last three weeks. They both took about a day longer to fill but I did receive an invoice in both orders. As far as technical help, they have been topnotch when I needed help. Give them a bit of slack for now, after all the Holiday rush is on. | |||
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Their website sucks, but they are good people who put their money where their mouth is when it comes to supporting gun rights, the firearms industry, and the gunsmithing trade. I always try to buy from them first. | |||
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They're trying to turn themselves in to MidWay. Really appreciate the increase for $5 to $7 to run an "E-Z Check". I keep being told that technology is supposed to lower the costs, not increase them in such cases. I wonder if I can get away with that with my customers? In my eyes, in such a situation, the "E-Z Check" is just part of the deal,,, something you know ahead of time and is 'included' as part of the deal. I see it as a hidden cost that the unknowing don't see. Took 10 days for the last order to arrive. I may not be 90 miles away, but I'm not that far out of the way, either. Used to only take 3-4 days. | |||
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Ya'll may be doing things wrong. My recent Brownells order got to me in 3 or 4 days AND I got an invoice sent to my e-mail address. They do need to do something about their search engine though; some of their stuff is difficult to find. I also get invoices from MidwayUSA. | |||
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Brownells supposedly got "in trouble" with there old good (midway like) web site so they had to switched to what they have now. | |||
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Brownells dealer discount has really shrunk. A lot of items now might as well be retail for dealers. Midway dealer discount was always very small and now about non existant. Craftsman | |||
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Midway cancelled their dealer program some time ago. It was only worth pennies, anyway. Anyone who runs any kind of business or balances a check book knows costs have increased. The suppliers, like Brownells, have had increased costs like everyone else. To make up the difference the price spread between 'dealer' and 'retail' has been narrowed instead of raising prices. After all, wages (for the end user/buyer) are stagnant as his employers costs have risen, too. Somewhere, someone gets squeezed. In this case the dealer. If I can buy the same item from Brownells supplier(s) for a like price, like Shilen for triggers or Rem. firing pin assemblies from Greg Tannel or Sunny Hill for their wares, I will go to them instead of Brownells. Ya' I end up with a bit more in shipping because it all didn't come in one box for $15.95. But, if the supplier can sell to me, as a business, for the same price Brownells sells to me as a business, Brownells is squeezing the supplier for an even lessor price. Squeeze 'um tight enough and the supplier/maker will no longer be in business. We've all heard stories of WalMart doing that to their suppliers. The only way that some can survive is through volume of sales. High volume means mass production which in turn means "no longer custom" and/or maybe not the quality that was provided in the past. In turn, the guy actually doing the work (the gunsmith) can only do so much in a given amount of time. So, to maintain, he has to raise his hourly rate. Some customers will understand, some won't have clue. To top it off, there are more FFLs than ever before. The firearms market boomed and everyone wants a piece of the pie. Some of those just sell, others have hung out a gunsmiths shingle, the title deserved or not. That means Brownells was selling more at "dealer". As firearms sales slow, I look for many to "drop out" as the extra paper work of being a business isn't fun, but necessary. And those who have "hung out the shingle" and haven't delivered will get weeded out. So goes the saga of our stagnant but boom & bust economy. A product of the "get rich quick" mentality. Will things ever 'stabilize' again? I' don't believe so, not in my life time anyway. | |||
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Excellent missive, Silvers. I am in agreement. The dealer discount doesn't mean much to me, what I want is the right part shipped as soon as possible after ordering. I placed an order on the 3rd and it hasn't shipped yet. It's adding weeks to the repairs and I don't like it. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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I don't much like it, you don't much like it, and our customers don't like it either. I now inventory more than ever before, but you can't keep 'everything' "in stock". I've explained to more than just a couple of them, "stop for just a minute and think,,, just how many different firearms can you think of? And, I'm supposed to keep parts for all of them!? I guess I'd be a parts dealer instead of the guy doing the work if I did." | |||
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Our shop had a policy of keeping a large parts section for our own use. People would come in and buy parts to repair their friends guns. We would raise the price on small parts to double the price listed in the catalogs. It takes time to make up a large order and time to stock the parts in a file system to find parts in the shop. This caused some people to cuss us out, but all we had to do was tell them to order their parts from the factory. We had four full time gunsmiths working and I made up most of the parts to order. Large parts like stock wood would be marked up 50 percent more to cover the time some parts are in inventory. If we repaired the guns in our shop the customer was charged the list price in the catalog for parts. Sometimes it would take a day to make up orders using a pencil, but with the PC's it can be done quicker. Profit is the name of this game and if you can not keep ahead you will be going down. | |||
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The vast majority of customers do not understand business, and a fair share of "gunsmiths" do not as well. Just think to yourself how many people, including guild-level and even guild members who've gone under. I'm certain all of us who do this professionally have, on numerous occasions, had customers come in with a bag of parts from Brownells so that I didn't get any "unwarranted" profits from marking up the parts. When that happens I just add a modest amount to the labor, and since I didn't have any cost in time for researching and ordering parts, and no carrying cost for paying for them, it works out great for me. Of course, this only applies if the customer has acquired the correct parts, which often is not the case. Bottom line is that this is a business and if I can't make a profit I wouldn't do it. Brownells current issues is making it more difficult for me to make that profit. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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I placed my order this past Monday, my order arrive on Friday and it had to go ground due to haz-mat. I thought that was just fine. I ordered a few weeks back and was told they were backed up a week or more in the warehouse, unless I ordered in 2nd day. I needed the parts quickly so it was worth it to me on that order to pay the additional shipping charges. Seems like some growing pains moving to the new facility. That is something I can relate to having just completed a much smaller move myself. Steve | |||
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OK, you all are taking as a customer of Brownells. Now how about a vendor that Brownells buys from. They moved into the new building at Grinell officially the first of Nov. We started shipping to them at the new address no later than Oct, 23rd. I had to call on an outstanding invoice that they had not paid on, they received it on Nov 10th, and when I called Dec 1st it had cleared their receiving on Nov 24th, and would be paid Dec 1st. Yes they are swamped with this new move, and the AMOUNT of product they are currently receiving and ship back out to customers. We are getting weekly orders from Brownells for various product. As a side note I ordered some items from Brownells on the 2nd of Dec, and received them via USPS on the 6th, not bad from the Midwest to the Pacific coast. That was not counting the ammo that went UPS and took 4 days longer to get here. They were so busy on Dec 1st when I tried to place that order, that at one time I was # 49 in place on the phone, and I just hung up to try later. Two hours later I was # 73 in the phone line. So I waited until the morning of Dec 2nd, when I was # 7 on the phone line. You can adjust your account to receive confirmation of your orders via email, so there is your invoice right on your computer to print off before you receive the order. Yes overall things have changed, but once you get used to the new way of doing it, it works better than the old way. James Wisner | |||
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In 40+ years never had one problem with Brownells or their web site and I am not a tech guy. Always shipped right away and in fact if it was not shipping right away they would let me know and why. If I asked them questions, it was usually answered the same day, sometimes within the hour. I find a lot of other businesses could take lessons from Brownells customer service. Never rode a bull, but have shot some. NRA life member NRA LEO firearms instructor (retired) NRA Golden Eagles member | |||
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As James Wisner said, the phone lines have been long. However, the do a have a neat customer service function. Their system tells you how many callers are ahead of you. You can then elect to have them call you back while maintaining your place in the phone queue. It works. I called to place an order, had about 20 callers ahead of me and elected the option when prompted. About 10-15 minutes later I received a call from them. I was impressed. Got my order a day or so longer than normal with invoice but no big deal. It's the Holidays and they have growing pains with new systems and physical plant. I'm sticking with them. | |||
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In this day and age of technology it is so nice to be able to determine if a vendor has something in stock or not. Remember the "old days" when you made out your order, dropped it in the mail and waited to see if you got it or not ? I have done business with Brownells for 40 plus years and they have always treated me well. So I have always been loyal to them. Craftsman | |||
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I order a few in stock parts for a project and it was over two weeks before they arrived. Lots of similar stories in the brownells forum at ar15.com I think their move and computer system created a perfect storm. What really pissed me off was the cavalier attitude of the CS rep I spoke with during my wait and unanswered emails during that time as well. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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I order from Brownells almost on a weekly basis, it keeps my inventory cost lower, delivery is usually 2-4 days. Their web site is not the most "user" friendly site that I use, but it gets the job done. I always look the item numbers up in the catalog and search by number, it speeds the process and it is then pretty stress free. I print the order and get a confirmation email with the shipping costs, shipping notification, and tracking numbers. I have always received excellent service from Brownells, not the lowest cost, But always service and usually "In Stock". | |||
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I also place orders almost weekly, and sometimes more. Over the past ten years I've averaged over $10,000 a year in purchases from them, with some years a whole lot more than that. Their customer service has been so good in the past that I quit even shopping for lower prices, as their main competitor advertised lower prices for almost everything they carried but hardly ever had the parts all in stock. It's precisely because the situation, at least for me lately, has changed I have posed the original question. I am not "bashing" them and I'm not being "disloyal" to them; but I do want to know when I'll be able to expect their service to return to the previous high level. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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I just ordered last night. All you have to do is check a box to get an invoice... Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Not really. For a short list, using rounded numbers, in 1992 there were 248K dealer FFLs (the high water mark, then, IIRC, Clinton raised prices of FFL drastically), in 1997 there were 79K, in 2002-60K, 2007-49K, 2012-51K, 2013-54K. Source (which actually has some interesting stats) ATF report: here xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I got an order in on Saturday; a small file, a 45 front sight blade and two aerosol cans. The items were packed in a 18 x 18 x 18 inch box and packed with about 5000 Cubic inches of plastic bagged air!! WTF is with that? What happened to the old 3x3x10 boxes? And besides that, I ordered, was billed for and received only two of the airosols. When I called customer service, I was #49 in the queue Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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You guys really think the Brownell's site is that bad? I actually thought it was one of the better websites for guns/gun parts you could actually visit. Not speaking of shipping practices, rather their website design actually finds what want when I want it. Just my $.02, but I've seen way worse from way larger companies. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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Concur 100%. I still order from them all the time, but it takes a lot of work to find some items that I can find easily in the paper catalog. One super annoying thing (not limited to Brownells)is the little pop-up bubble asking if you need help from an "expert". If I needed an expert, I'd ask for it. You have to "x" it out or it will follow you and cover an important part of the page. The one time I thought, "Ok, I'll bite" and asked a question - they didn't know what I asked. Ah well. I'm sure I'll order again next week, but it can be a pain. Dave | |||
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My typical Brownells experience goes like this. 1. Get onto brownells.com 2. Search for what I want 3. Not get what I want in the search 4. Try and sort through their BS of a file system on the top left 5. Become irate, google the part 6. Find out Potterfield has it, plus he has ammo and brass I need for %35 per off. 7. If Potterfield doesn't have it I order direct from PTG or whoever. Because Brownells website sucks! | |||
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I usually find what I need in the catalog then search the part number on their website and order it. Their website is difficult to search for the part you need, always coming up with stuff that has no relationship to what you were searching for. "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". | |||
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There seems to be two distinct threads going on here. The original post was about trying to run your business without knowing the cost of the parts you receive. I've complained to Brownell's customer service about no longer receiving an invoice in the order and they tell me that they hear that all day long. Obviously, some genius in I.T. or management thought this was a good idea. I don't. I need to know what I paid for the item, the retail price (your customer will know that one!)and my customer # in case I have to contact Brownells or return something. None of these are supplied on the packing slip. Sure I can go online and find it, or look it up in the catalog. But all of that takes time. Brownell's used to be concerned with the small businesses they service. They seem to have lost that concern. And don't even get me started on the changes to their phone system. If there is a problem with an order and I have to call customer service, the last thing I want to hear is that I am the 34th caller in line. Customer service at Brownell's has taken a giant leap backwards. I've been trying to use it as an example of how to improve mine. Mark Pursell | |||
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All of my orders have come with an invoice in the box. As far as I know all you have to do is click on the box that says " Include Invoice With Order "or something similar as was stated above. They also can send you an email of the invoice too. I am sure that you know you can go to My Account and print out all the details of your orders. I think it has mine stored back 5 years or even more as I looked through some of that not too long ago. You have to click the " Save My Order To My Account" box , but I just keep all of that checked. While i generally use the website, if I have small parts I just go to the catalog first and get the part numbers and it generally pops up. Sometimes some of the the Sinclair pieces like a bushing or a bore guide can be more difficult online so I just call for those type of parts. I havent had to call Customer Service in a while though. | |||
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