I have been hearing that many of you are looking for someone to machine your rifle stocks, do good work & charge a reasonable price.
I retired last year. My old friend Ed Schulan passed a while back R.I.P.

There is a young gentleman by the name of Mike Cuypers at [URL=www.bijoucreek.com ]www.bijoucreek.com [/URL] who approached me about helping him start up a NEW STOCK SERVICE.

Bijoucreek now has my equipment and is ready to cut stocks.
We are re-working the OLD [URL=www.riflebuilders.com ]www.riflebuilders.com [/URL] pages.
The NEW page will be devoted to stock machining and related things.

All services will be strictly “by the hour” charges.
Bijoucreek is capable of providing “roughed blanks” to a complete stock job and anything in between.

Your wood or Bijoucreek’s wood. Your pattern (Or old broken stock) or Bijoucreek’s Patterns. You pick your poison.

Please enquire about the new service, visit the web-pages and I hope you will report back favorably.

FOR SALE; Bijoucreek now has my last Duplicating Machine New on a skid ready to go, I will not be building machines any longer, please contact Bijoucreek for specifications and price.

Thank you
Michael Greene

quote:

All services will be strictly “by the hour” charges

Well that aint good

Mr. Miller,
Please forard all responces to Mike Cuypers or www.riflebuilders.com

Thank you.
M. Greene

quote:

Originally posted by JD Miller:

quote:

All services will be strictly “by the hour” charges

Well that aint good

What isnt good JD miller? Do you have a better way for me to run my Business?

quote:

All services will be strictly “by the hour” charges

On the flip side, that sounds fair and works for me...

by the hour with a cap probably is fair

Mike - Greene comes over a tad rough .. like 40 grit on a belt sander....

Hey Mike, you might want to put up some pics of of your patterns on your website. I'd like to see them.

I wish you the best of luck with it!

Terry

Yes Mike, sounds like a good business. There's one thing that is pretty much universally agreed on this forum, and it's we all like pictures.

I have two fairly decent quarter sawn blanks, one in Californicated English and the other in Bastogne, which someday I want to have made into stocks for 98 Mausers. Duplication is the first step. It's nice to think ahead on these things.

KB

Don't think any further than James Anderson for duplicating if you want a professional job.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by BIJOUCREEK:

quote:

Originally posted by JD Miller:

quote:

All services will be strictly “by the hour” charges

Well that aint good

What isnt good JD miller? Do you have a better way for me to run my Business?

Most of us like to know "what it will cost" upfront. I have never run a duplicator, but I would think the labor would be the same for most jobs. I notice everyone else I have seen has a flat rate for duplicating.

I'm not telling you how to run your business, you seem to be doing pretty well without my advice.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Don't think any further than James Anderson for duplicating if you want a professional job.
Butch

aka / dba Blank Check Jim.

KB

Sometimes the childish garbage around here makes me feel young again.

I understand Jason. KB, I believe you would feel at home on the 24hr Campfire forum.All the work that James has done for me has been a type written bill before work starts. The only changes were the ones that I made. How can it be better than that. No surprises!
Butch

Don't take much to start a fight in a telephone booth

Duane,
You need to get out of the shop. Only phone booths around are in museums.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Duane,
You need to get out of the shop. Only phone booths around are in museums.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
You reminded me of my one and only AI chamber debacle. That one was enough for me to form a lifetime opinion KB

If you didn't try and nickel & dime your smiths, you may have better results.

You need to have the attitude:
You want to do it right the first time, don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

aka / dba Blank Check Jim.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
KB, I believe you would feel at home on the 24hr Campfire forum. All the work that James has done for me has been a type written bill before work starts. The only changes were the ones that I made. How can it be better than that. No surprises!
Butch

Butch, I recognize your invitation to leave, but I ain't gonna. I didn't intend my post to be childish. I was trying to make a mild joke, to state a point, based on James' earlier post elsewhere.

I appreciate that you clarified the typical customer/gunsmith arrangment with James, which seems reasonable to me. Now it's clear, and I don't have to wonder about that anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Most of us like to know "what it will cost" upfront.

Jason, my blank check comment was basically saying the same thing you said in another way, and agreeing with you. I just tried to make light of it. You are free of course to call it childish. Different words, same message.

I hope perhaps you just didn't look at it that way, and didn't mean an insult.

Of course, I didn't mean to insult James either, but I did intend to push the edge a little, for the purpose of the point, which I think among the three of us, has been clarified and adequately answered.

KB

Not serious about you leaving. The smiths that I have spent a fair amount of money with have never pulled any surprises on me. I have always known where I'm at. I didn't ask TooMany Tools for a price on my Enfield. When he finished it and sent me a bill, I was very happy. Kobe gave me a written estimate and stayed with it. Malm has done work for me and it was good work at the agreed price. David Christman has built 3 rifles for me and billed as agreed.
I'm not saying I will not have a problem, but if I stick with this group, I'm not worried.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Don't think any further than James Anderson for duplicating if you want a professional job.
Butch

James Anderson has done some work for me and it was first class work, although not as extensive as some of you other guys have had done by him.

But I am going to say that another ACGG member, Al Lind, does very nice duplicating work as well. If you order just the plain duplicating service you will get back a piece that is left oversize so that you can whittle it down to your liking. That is how I have used him.

However, If you want to pay some extra money, he will glass bed your action into one of his patterns and duplicate it, which I think would be a great service. And he will cut your blank for skeleton grip caps and metal buttplates as well.

http://www.allindgunmaker.com/

quote:

butchlambert

: You're speaking of highly qualified " Established Smiths " who

know what it takes to complete a particular job . I'm sure somewhere along the line counted hours

and came up with guide line pricing , based on those " Learning curves " !.

As for Mr. Mike Cuypers I don't know anything about his work and can't draw any conclusions in regrads

too workmanship . I do however understand the Hourly pricing issue ,as time is Money ;

Your money = His time . If he does decent work within a time frame then I fail to see the argument .

I say he's entitled to a fair chance to show his ability and hopefully his pricing will be

commensurate with that ability . MHO ...

I don't see why labor by the hour should be an issue with one-off work. We all pay plumbers, electricians, lawyers, and auto repair that way. You just have to have the understanding ahead of time on rates and possible total cost.

But I'm sure we all have horror stories too. Once I called a plumber to replace a cracked PVC toilet flange. He said it was usually a 1 hr labor job plus parts. He arrived at 9 AM, took a look at the toilet and said he didn't have the part(despite the fact that I had told him what it was)and would have to go get one. He returned at 4:30 PM with the part and repaired the pipe, leaving at 5:30 PM. Five days later I get a bill for $750! It included a charge for 8 hrs labor @ $70/hr, a $70 call charge, $25 for parts(including glue) plus 80 miles travel @ $.36/mile!!!! Turns out he didn't have an account with any plumbing supply stores in the city(probably bad pay) and had to drive 40 miles to the next town. There was a plumbing supply house 1 mile from my house. He claimed it took him all day to travel there and back. Needless to say I had a long conversation with his employer who actually supported him, but we finally negotiated a price. You just never know.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:


Jason, my blank check comment was basically saying the same thing you said in another way, and agreeing with you. I just tried to make light of it. You are free of course to call it childish. Different words, same message.

I was speaking of the tit-for-tat BS not the actual words. But name calling always seems childish.

I'm surprised to see it from you two. I have enjoyed reading both Butch's posts and yours for a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

I'm surprised to see it from you two. I have enjoyed reading both Butch's posts and yours for a long time.

I've enjoyed Butch's posts too. It's not so much between Butch and I. He's just defending James, who likes to mess with me sometimes. It goes back a ways. Besides, James doesn't need defending, but sometimes another's intervention helps things not go off on a rant.

KB

When I opened my business 35yrs ago, I knew what to charge for various jobs. If I missed, I ate it and remembered it. I think if I were going to invest money in a shop to do stock work I would sure as the devil know what to charge. Most of his competition has their prices posted on the net.
A top of the line experienced guy with a good machine would put out the duplicated stock in a quicker time and maybe cheaper.
Mike, I hope you do well. You are competing with a tough crowd.
Butch

Amen to your post butchlambert. My thoughts exactly. I am not willing to pay for trial and error.

There are lots of guys out there with duplicators and a nice stash of wood who can rough one out for $125 including plain walnut wood. They know their machines very well and take no time to turn out a stock. They charge a bit more for drop-ins as it takes longer.

If you are in it for the long haul you may have to eat some losses if caused by inexperience. There is no mention of experience level just that he bought the business afterall.

The website is a work in progress and we will absolutly have pictures of finished stocks and maybe even the patterns I have along with a description and a finished stock underneath

I plan on doing more then just duplication. I already do start to finish stock making and will continue this. I will offer a variety of services like glassing customers barrel into the pattern for a shorter inlett time. Inletting of customers metal then allowing customer to finsih the stock. I will offer almost any combination of stock work. With this type of work is where the hourly rate will come in. For one of a kind jobs and special instruction. Everyone seems to have somthing different this is why the hourly charge will be applicable in some situtions.

For standard duplication of bolt rifles M 70, Mauser, Rem 700 my pattern it will be no more then $120 to duplicate whether its by the hour or flat fee. If the customer has the pattern and wood it might have a small set up fee to get the the pattern in the machine like $15 or If custom work is requested or needed this will be charged per hour.

Yes I am new to running the machine and will be slower but that doesnt mean I am going to charge by the hour and take 2 weeks to cut your stock, then demand 2 weeks pay. It will be fair prices no matter how I charge. The guys on here I have built rifles for know I dont charge excessive fees no matter how long it takes. If Iam slow due to learning thats on me not the customer.

The thing about this machine that will make the per hour rate work and maybe work better is that Mike Greene built a custom rougher that is automated on this machine. This allows hands free operation until the stock is roughed then just finish pass and inlett. We will have a video of the machine in automatic mode soon and will post it on Youtube for veiwing. This should allow us to have very competitive prices, maybe not as cheap as Ed Shulin was, but very reasonable.

I appreciate all the comments and concerns any questions just ask

No Complaints with an honest assessment .

Thanks for the follow up info .

May success follow you in your new venture!

Sounds like a plan. Hope it works out well for you.

Please Direct your PMs' to Mike Cuypers at
www.riflebuilders.com
Or
www.bijoucreek.com

Thank you.