can you give me a bit of info on the Lyman 48? I have one that came off one of my rifles, I don't think that it is pristine or anything, just wondering what it is.

Red

Pictures posted here would help to ID it.

That or more info, markings, type opf rifle it came off of, etc.

Lyman 48 is a standard model. Various versions were made to fit on many different rifles. E.g 48S for the Springfield 1903, 48WJS for a Winchester 70 (or 54) etc. The differences are in the shape of the mounting block. You should be able to find the application code of yours on the mounting block.

It's a very good quality, click adjustable, receiver mounted peep sight. First introduced prior to WWI and available until the 70's(?). There are still lots around and are easy to find.

What rifle did it come off?

A couple of photos of the 48WJS 3rd variant (no stock cut necessary)



- stu

Here is one on a Remington 30S. I think it is a 2nd variant.


Hog Killer

Here is the Lyman catalog description.

If you have any interest in selling this item please contact me as I would love to put one on an older Mauser.
Thanks,
Frank

The most successful of the micrometer receiver sights up throught the 1960s. Then fell out of use with growing popularity of scope sights. Made, to best of my recollection, for Springfield 1903, American Krag, Norwegian Krag, Ross, Enfield 1917, Remington 30, 720. 721, 722, Winchester 52, 54, 70, Mauser 98. Not for lever or pump actions. Excellent workmanship by Lyman.

Agree with Mark, one of the best sights Lyman ever made.

Michael, which of your super 1903s is that? What is the year? And the Lyman 48 - is that the original long slide with 150' elevation? Maybe one of the match shooters -- if one of them follows this forum -- can tell us if that is good for 1000 yards, or maybe even more.

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
Michael, which of your super 1903s is that? What is the year? And the Lyman 48 - is that the original long slide with 150' elevation? Maybe one of the match shooters -- if one of them follows this forum -- can tell us if that is good for 1000 yards, or maybe even more.

It’s a circa 1913 Wundhammer, Los Angeles. The sight is the first model Lyman 48 introduced in 1911, just like the one pictured in the ad above.

The Lyman 48 was the receiver sight used most often on high-quality Springfield sporting and match rifles, often on ones not having a scope.

The Lyman 48 is probably the best quality receiver sight Lyman ever made. They are considered quite desireable these days.

On this note... if anyone has a 48R for the Rem Model 30 that they'd be willing to part with ($ or trade) PM me if you would. My Model 30A needs one.
Thanks again,
Jeff Pfeifer

There is an excellent article written by Jim Foral on the Lyman 48 in the new 2007 Gun Digest.

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
Maybe one of the match shooters -- if one of them follows this forum -- can tell us if that is good for 1000 yards, or maybe even more.

Yes, and what's more the comment, in the old Lyman ad above, about corrections to 2000 yards appears to be valid.

Calculating from a nominal 200 yard zero, trajectory data approximating the old '06 172gr match load indicates +34 minutes of elevation for 1000 yards; +145 minutes for 2000, just within the 150 minutes of the 'long slide' 48. Actually, the 60 minutes on a late-model standard (short) slide will get the '06 out to beyond 1000 yards.

(This assumes the sight system is dead parallel to the bore line, the bore line is not too far off the projectile line of departure and so forth. A high front sight can easily eat up 5 to 15 minutes of elevation.)

By the way, the drop at 2000 yards is a whopping 254 feet, and the MRT is an imposing 100+ ft. At 2000 yards, the bullet is plunging downward at nearly -8 degrees; an error in range estimate of only 20 yards will result in a miss on a standing man-size target.

While I've never used a Lyman 48 in 'real' competion, I have fired an old M70 -'06 having a Lyman 48 out to 600 yards in an across-the-course match. This was a prewar standard rifle having the usual 24" bbl and was original in all respects excepting a Redfield Sourdough post in the front sight slot and a blank in the middle slot. At 600 the load was a Sierra 180gr MK @ about 2700fps. Calculated trajectory suggests 13 minutes from the 200 yard zero, but my logs indicate an actual 15 - 16 minutes was required.

Of course, all this begs the question: Why in the world design a 2000 yard target sight for the Springfield? I've seen pictures of an orginal prototype 48, and it clearly was designed from the start with the 150 minute 'long slide'. Do I recall correctly that one stage of the Bisley matches was fired at 1500 yards?

quote:

I've seen pictures of an orginal prototype 48, and it clearly was designed from the start with the 150 minute 'long slide'.

Do you recall where you saw a picture of the prototype 48, I would be very interested to learn this?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Petrov:
Do you recall where you saw a picture of the prototype 48, I would be very interested to learn this?

Several years ago a fellow had a book out at the range. As I recall, the caption to the picture said it was a prototype. It is memorable because the graduations were something other than MOA. It was on a Springfield. Maybe one of the old Phil Sharpe or Roy Dunlap books? I have had several Lyman 48 sights on rifles but I am not a collector.

Actually, I have always believed the Redfield 80 with 'hunter' knobs to be a better choice for sporters.

Does anyone here know where to obtain a blank slide for the Lyman 48?

The reason for my question is I have been doing some research on the early 48’s. One prototype is on the left and the standard 48 is on the right.

quote:

...prototype is on the left and the standard 48 is on the right.

Yes, if I recall correctly the left slide is the one I remember. From your photo it appears to have a "Patent Pending" inscription, suggesting it was manufactured after the patent application was filed.

Since it's now rather easy to search the Patent Office database, I just looked up this one. The application was filed on February 8, 1910. So, your early slide might have been manufactured after Feb 8, 1910 and before July 11, 1911 (the patent issue date). It's a very early piece in any event.

Unfortunately, there's no discussion in the specification of what the graduations on the patent model might have been. All the inventor of record, Mr. Windridge, has to say is this:

"...the slide ... may be raised or moved to any height by turning the adjusting screw... Such movement of the slide will be relatively slow, and is therefore calculated for fine and careful adjustment..."

Thought you gents might like to see what the patent drawings look like. Here's a clip - note the profile appears virtually identical to the old advertisement above and photos of early examples - and on a Springfield receiver, too.

Jim,

Thank you, I have a copy of the Lyman patent. What I need is a picture or reference to who got the prototypes and what rifles they were put on. I pulled both Sharpe and Dunlap but did not find it. If you (or anyone) happen to see one of these prototype sighs or ANY reference to them I would be very grateful.

MP

Meplat, I'd guess that the reason the 48 adjusted out to 2000 yards was because the issue 1903 sight went out that far - I don't have my issue rifle with me now, it may go out past 2000 for that matter. No doubt Mr. Windridge and the Lyman people wanted their new sight to equal the extreme range potential of the military sight. Remember that circa 1900, before the wide distribution of machine guns, infantry tactics included long range volley fire. This was not sniping at individual soldiers but laying down a curtain of fire on such objectives as troop formations and crew served weapons. With the early 48, you could argue that it might have military, not merely sporting, utility.

Vigillinus, it certainly seems plausible.