I've lived my whole life with factory rifles almost as they came out of the box, though I've either paid for or performed trigger upgrades and minor bedding. This has yielded functional rifles, but now I'd like a little more, though short of paying for a full custom.

What I have in mind is rebarreling and restocking (not all at once), but I've kind of run into a chicken and the egg, what comes first question, starting from my M70 Classic long action 6.5x55. It shoots fine, though there's more copper than I'd like to see in the bore after exrtended sessions.

Having a Krieger barrel installed will cost me $600. I presume that includes general squaring up. If I want the action blue-printed, that's $225. Standard rebluing of the barreled action is $180, so I'm now at $1,000, and haven't considered the new stock at all, nor re-timing the safety, or any general action smoothing or feeding improvements, or even a new extractor.

Alternatively, I can spend the $1,000 on a new Serengetti rifle stock, built to my needs and dimensions. The problem with doing this first is that the current barreled action does not sit squarely in the center of the factory barrel channel, and I'd hate to have a new stock built to (possible) off-square alignment.

A newly-square action and rifle might - or might not - improve alignment in my current factory stock. As it is now, the barrel came from the factory off to the left enough with additional material has been routered off of the left side to float the barrel, while leaving a larger gap on the right (ugly). I could have the right routered the same as the left to even the appearance, but that might create a gap that's too big on both sides.

I'd be interested in how (and why) you have resolved these issues in the past. Advice is good, but WHY is better. Thanks.

Jaywalker

First of all, the action/barrel not sitting square is a stock issue, not the action/barrel. Your stock is warped, or inletted wrong.

Squaring an action is more like adjustments in the thousandths to get everything aligned to relieve stress. You want the bolt face, receiver, and barrel all squared to each other. Custom guns generally are done to this at a tighter tolerance than factory.

The beauty of a custom barrel is it is straighter than factory, and fouls less.

Do the metal work first! No exceptions.

If you don't you may end up ruining a nice stick of wood, when it doesn't all line up.

As for Krieger, I would go with someone else. I have had a couple of Krieger barreled rifles, Lilja, Hart and Pac-Nor are better.

The prices your talking about are on the high side.

Pac-Nor or Hart will install and chamber a super match grade barrel in any caliber you want for $500-600. Blueing will be about 100-150 extra.

A trigger job while the rifle is there is usually only $50.

Then send the barreled action to Serengeti. Or if you don't want to wait and you can do it yourself, buy a stock from boyds for $100, and use it with this stock while you wait for the rest of the money.

So :

Barrel job from Hart or Pac-Nor $550
Trigger job $50
Boyds laminate or wood stock $100
Bluing or black teflon $150

$900 total and wait for the money for your fancy stock from Serengeti.

So glad I could help you save money

http://www.boydboys.com
http://www.pac-nor.com
http://www.hartbarrels.com

I forgot to mention that Hart or Pac-Nor will square your action before they barrel it for free!

Don't confuse the "squaring" job you get from Hart or Pacnor as the real deal. A trully squared action has the threads recut, they don't just chase the existing threads with a tap.

dogcatcher223, Thanks, yes, that's why I mentioned "blueprinting." It seems reasonable to set the action up right once and for all.

D99, I have to admit yours is the first negative comment I've heard about Krieger barrels. I like the idea of cut rifling - maybe having a good smith install it will avoid issues.

Jaywalker

I´ve used Walther barrels and they are very good and not very expensive. My gunsmith uses them exclusively on custom guns and has had no complaints. You get more than you are paying for.

I had a custom .416 Rigby built from scratch for under 2000 Euros and I think gunsmithing is actually cheaper in the US.

Shop around, ask questions and presto you´ve found a deal and then you´re not just paying for a name or brand.

Jaywalker, while the Pac-nor may be a good barrel, i would not group it with the Kriegers, Lilja, Shilen etc.

It is at the lower end of custom, along with Douglas.

Krieger makes a great barrel, and that is what i chose for my custom which is currently being built. They are so smooth, that you can actually see the difference between it and factory with the naked eye.

Wow, someone I disagree with as much as Adkinson.

How many Pac-Nor barrels do you have?

Pac-Nor barreld a custom Ruger #3 for me in 30-40 Krag. It was a solid half inch rifle.

Craig Boddington's pet 8mm Rogue River is a Pac-Nor and it's a .20 gun. He claims it's the most accurate rifle he has ever owned.

Lilja, Hart, and Schneider make the best barrels, but they are the most $$$$$$$$$$$$$

My gunsmith charges me $150 to chamber, thread, crown and install a $280 Krieger barrel.
It cost me another $150 to blueprint an action and $70 for a trigger job
That gives me $650 for all my metal work.

dogcatcher223, if you can look into a barrel with or, without a borescope, and tell if it is a shooter or not, please get in touch with me ASAP. We are going to become rich!

When a person states that one of the major custom barrels is better than another, remember the old saying about opinions! It is purely opinion, nothing more.

I've owned one Kreiger and it was the worst barrel I've ever owned. But why then do they win so many matches? I won't go out on a limb and say Kreiger makes a bad barrel. But I will only say I personally won't buy another.

I have also had several PacNors, and they have been great shooters. And I'm not talking about half in guns here, I'm talking benchrest rifles.

Every barrel maker makes good ones and bad ones.

I have Douglas barrels that shoot very well. I have Lilja barrels that shoot very well. I have PAC-NOR barrels that shoot very well. I have Krieger barrels that shoot very well. Like the old saying goes, "Ya pays your money and takes ya chances". All mentioned above with the possible exception of Douglas (and I use them regularly with good results) you can pretty much count on a quality barrel. The only overall theme I completely agree on here is, do the metal work first! Like Townsend Whelen said, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." A bad stock can screw up the accuracy but just because it's ugly doesn't make it shoot bad. Pay for quality metal work, save some more money and get your great looking stock later.

Okay, then brand of barrel aside - what phase of the metalwork to have done first in order to spread the costs out reasonably? Barrel/blueing, or trigger/safety/funtioning?

Trigger/safety, and fuctioning (extractor, feeding, and smoothness) appears easiest and cheapest, and if I understand it right, should not have to be redone after the next phase of barrel install. True?

From what I recall reading about blueprinting, the 'smith would remove the barrel, find where the center of bore should be (first reference), and among other things recut the action threads. From that, it would appear it should not be done until the new barrel is ready to be installed, right? In other words, no blueprinting desired if I'm keeping the old barrel until the next phase?

Jaywalker

I think your ideas are correct. When a new barrel is installed the action should be trued, ie, chasing the threads to make sure they are aligned with the bolt bore and squaring the face of the reciver and lapping the lugs in. Trigger work and feeding should not affect or be affected by later improvements.

quote:

Thanks, yes, that's why I mentioned "blueprinting.

A full blueprint on a new Model 70 is a waste of money, you have been looking on Kriegers site, they won't even do it.

Square and lapp it yes, if you want to get deeper into it than that, buy a Hall, BATT, or a Nieska Bay, or even a Rem 700 if your on a budget. Beyond Squaring and lapping, it is deminishing returns.

You can get the above installed with the barrel for $550 tops including a barrel. A match Shilen is $200 and the work is $300. Even paying a premium for a Krieger or a Lilja barrel thats only another $50-75.

Then worry about your stock, if your barrel is not centered in your stock, its the stock isn't inlet properly, either open it up evenly and bed it, or feed your woodstove with it if that isn't going to make you happy. If your willing to get a semi inletted stock and do the work yourself you can save a chunk of change.

quote:

schromf: A full blueprint on a new Model 70 is a waste of money... Beyond Squaring and lapping, it is deminishing returns.

schromf, that's an interesting thought. Can you give me your reasoning, please?

Jaywalker

You guys don't know how lucky you are!

In the UK it's not possible to get a rebarrel for under $850 for a Pacnor. A quality barrel by a quality smith runs at $1000 not including bluing......

A Winchester 70 cannot be blueprinted? Give me a break. Every action can be stress relieved, and squared.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:

A full blueprint on a new Model 70 is a waste of money, you have been looking on Kriegers site, they won't even do it.

Square and lapp it yes, if you want to get deeper into it than that, buy a Hall, BATT, or a Nieska Bay, or even a Rem 700 if your on a budget. Beyond Squaring and lapping, it is deminishing returns.

I disagree. I would imgine that Echols, Miller, Simillion, and the like would also disagree. As well as their clients who keep their bluprinted M70's going out the door.

Jaywalker,

You can get a M70 blueprinted. Albeit, it will cost more than a blueprint job on a Rem 700. How much do you want to spend or budget? You need to talk to a few smiths and see if they have done this type of work to M70's before. And as the others said, metal work must come first as the foundation of a well built rifle. I'd talk to Mark Penrod about your M70.

DavidReed and dogcatcher223,

I think schromf agrees the M70 can be blueprinted, but he thinks the result on an action made for hunting would be less than on one made for more formal target efforts. I think the point was that the cost/benefit of it on an M70 action wasn't worth it. I'm exploring my own "anality limit" for perfection right now.

And, yes, I have discussed this with Mark Penrod - the prices cited in the first post are from his brochure or from him personally. Many of these other issues could have been discussed with him directly, also, but I hate to take an artist away from his easel to teach me to fingerpaint...

You guys are very knowledgeable about alternatives, so I intend to use the knowledge gained to hone in on specific approaches before I mail the rifle off. Please continue.

Jaywalker