Hi-

Trying to find a little knowledge for my latest PUC (project under consideration). I'd like to rebarrel a Russian M44 carbine from the original 7.62x54R to 45-70 Govt.

The rifle is already set up to handle rimmed cartridges, and the rim size is very similar. Brass length is nearly identical also. I'm not anticipating many changes to the action or magazine itself (but I've been wrong before).

I'm mainly looking for advice on the feasibility of the idea. Anyone done this before?

My primary questions:
- what are the specs for the bbl threads?
- any recommendations for bbl sources/work?
- any idea on the bolt mods that might have to be done?
- does the country of origin of the rifle matter? They were made by soviet satellite countries as well.
- anyone know what pressure levels this action is designed for? The 45-70 is by nature a low pressure round, but I am more interested in the higher pressures/velocities attainable in modern guns like the Marlin 1895G. Can I expect the M44 action to handle this pressure safely? The 7.62x54 is no slouch itself, so I am going to guess that modern 45-70 pressures will be safe in this action (not loads like those specifically for the Ruger #1, though).

I do love my 45-70, but it would be nice to have a few more rounds on tap. The single-shot won't let you do that. I'm not looking to build a showpiece, just a simple functional hunting rifle. I'm very familiar with the M-N in general, but have heard of few custom jobs done on this action, most likely due to the lack of a simple mauser-like safety, I would guess.

Any tips would be great. Thanks, maxman

The threaded portion of the barrel is .980" in dia, .937" in length. Thread is 16 V TPI.

Because the small satellite countries are sponsored by The Motherland, you can assume they used the same tooling, their rifle specs should be all the same.

IMO, a long bolt handle blank should be welded on, turned down, maybe a little swept back. I've seen butterknife style bolt on sporterized guns on gunshows and they look pretty good.

Don't worry about the pressure limit of these actions, they rank no.1 or 2 in strength among military actions. What I love about these actions is they can be so smooth. My Polish M44 have the bolt polished, now it feels like they are running on ball bearings. These rifles have a surprise feature: magazine cutoff---the next round in magazine cannot be fed until the bolt is turned down and snaps over the rim of the first round, therefore prevent "double feeding" of a push feed, sometimes frowned upon as a hunting rifle. The magazine is single-stack single-feed, even if you need mag modification it will be a small job.

Start shopping for a stock, if the new barrel is contoured to fit the military stock, the barrel wall might be too thin(0.077" thinner than 7.62cal) after the bore is blown up to .458".

Pyrotek

This is a very interesting topic! Maybe if it's 'doable' I may have to consider rebarreling mine.

Very interesting idea... I think the 45-70 rim is bigger than the 7.62x54R rim. Wonder if the necessary adjustments can be made??

Pyro may have some more precise data on the strength of the action, but I load mine to 52,000 PSI and feel very comfortable. That's also about the limit on the older Mausers, like my '96 Swede.

If someone has definite information on the strength of the M44 vs. more modern Mausers, I'd REALLY like to see it. The modern Mausers routinely get built into 30-06's and 308's. If the Mosins will take that much pressure comfortably, it would be nice to be able to run a bit more pressure than I do.

You can pick up a nice M38 or M44 for under $100. Adding a modern barrel would make this a fairly cheap, neat 45-70.

Pyrotek, will this action feed the .45/70 from the magazine?? If I recall correctly, these mags are pretty narrow at the bullet end.

[ 04-29-2003, 19:04: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Good info - thanks. The 45-70 rim is a tad bigger, but I think it will still fit the bolt face. I was already planning a new stock. I want a nice stout 22" tube on this when it's finished, so I will have to either modify the military stock to fit (which shouldn't be a big deal, as I was planning to alter it anyway), or see if one of the replacement plastic stocks would work.

Heck, I might even start from scratch and whittle a whole new stock just for fun. I could do a custom laminate in my own colors, and use the existing stock as a pattern, adding a longer length of pull and a slight pistolgrip/palm swell... boy a guy could get carried away.

This will probably come to pass. I can pick up a rifle for $43 and then have someone do the rebarreling for me. The whole project ought to be real reasonable. Not a lot of dough for this experiment.

Case capacity for the 7.62x54R is less than the 30-06, yet the ballistics are very similar for bullet weights up to about 150gr. From this I assume that the action is as strong as any modern 30-06 class action - yes? It might also be reasonable to think that the 7.62x54R operates at an average pressure higher than the 30-06, especially with heavier bullets. All I have is basic ballistic data, of course, so anyone can feel free to correct me. maxman

Ummmmm... actually, most reliable sources put the operating pressure of the 7.64x54R below the '06, by about 6 KPSI.

The case does have less capacity than the '06, but you're frequently dealing with a 27" barrel. With a 20" barrel, performance is a bit below the 308.

The 45-70 is a MUCH lower pressure cartridge.

Yes,

The magazine definitely need rework, the shoulder in the magazine well should be set forward a bit, the lips recontoured for the straight wall cartridge. Also stock inletting for the new mag.

7.62x54R Norma factory ammo, 45,000 PSI. SAAMI pressure limit for modern guns in 45/70, 28,000 PSI. Keep us posted on this project. The same idea crossed my mind in the past.