I own a Model 70 Classic in .300 Winnie that is having some safety issues. After chambering a round, or just cocking the rifle by cycling the bolt without a round, the safety lever will not move rearward unless I lift the bolt up a considerable amount. So I would assume that something is too long or too large or too fat in there.

The question is, how does one decide which part to work on to rectify the situation.

Let someone who knows these safeties, work on it. They are very simple contrivances, and also can fire when the safety is released if fit wrongly.
As I tell everyone; it is a balancing act among the safety, the cocking piece, and the sear. Any of the three can, and do, affect how it works. Or doesn't.

Tom is probably right. They are not that hard to do, but I find that if the cuts are done properly, in a mill, with sharp, carbide end mills, the end result will work a lot smoother and will probably last longer because the cuts are 100% square and flat. When doing them by hand the camming surfaces are often rounded so that roundness is quickly worn off which moves the safety closer to having to be refit again sooner than if the edges were flat and true.

There are several different variations of that safety and on the ones that require more time for disassembly and assembly I charge about $160 CAD which is about $120 USD. For the simpler version I charge about $130 CAD or $100 USD and I expect my US counterparts are very close to those prices. So it's not an expensive repair. Unless you screw something up and suddenly find yourself buying a new cocking piece.

I find that most of the time, only .003 to .010 inch of material has to be removed to get the safety functioning properly again. So you can understand how the mill with it's ability to slice off .001 at a crack so that you can fit and try, fit and try, is a lot safer, precise and predictable than going at it with stones or files. I'm probably overthinking and over complicating things a bit. But it does work well and I seldom if ever overshoot fitting one.

recut model 70 safety cam1 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

recut model 70 safety cam2 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

I repair them just as described above; however, I only get about 2/3 of that price for the job here in New Mexico. Ive done as many as four in one week as the Win 70 are very popular here.

I use a belt sander and my calibrated eyeballs can remove .001 at a time, fit, try and repeat.

So the answer to my question is:

I told you above; one of three things. No one can decide which one to work on until they see it. And for the uninitiated, do not try it yourself. Because you can do more damage to it and need a replacement cocking piece for example.
Personally, I always start with the cocking piece angle and depth as Speer showed above; that is the fix 90 percent of the time.

If you can engage the safety only when you lift the bolt handle, the issue is probably the notch for the bolt lock. It should be welded up and re-cut in the proper location. Regards, Bill

Studying it. Definitely don't want to take anymore off the sear, as it would be way to short. Safety will go on when bolt starts to close, but roughly. I am going to take the whole damn thing apart and take a look at it. Maybe something is broken off in there. As I understand it I have to drift the little tiny pin inwards and then lift the safety lever upwards. Is that little tiny pin re-useable?

If it ever worked properly then the notch in the bolt is still there.
I reuse the little retaining pins.

You stated initially that the safety could only be engaged when the bolt handle was lifted. If this is the case, the sear likely has nothing to do with it. If you choose to remove the safety lever, the bolt lock pin will then be loose (watch it. There is a spring behind it and it WILL take flight if you give it a chance) put the safety back in with out the bolt lock pin and test it. If it works smoothly, the bolt lock is indeed the problem and it can be addressed. Regards, Bill.

I have looked at the kits that are used for mausers (Dakota and Satterlee) so I am aware of how they work and how the spring works.

That bolt spring is a bitch to get off.

I am just saying that if the safety worked correctly from the factory then the bolt notch has to be in the right place. If it it never worked, or it is a non factory safety, then maybe. I mill in a lot of these notches on Mauser bolts. It needs to be looked at by someone familiar with them.

I bought it used. It worked when I first bought it, and started acting up while I was on a hunt in Montana. I have not shot the gun since.

How does one get familiar with them? By looking at them, and maybe ruining a few.

Yep, that's how. Rip it apart and see what is happening; it is something with the bolt lock plunger and it is not the notch in the bolt as it worked once. But check it for burrs anyway;

I would imagine that it has the typical, sloppy model 70 cocking piece. As you wiggle the bolt up and down its changing the angle on the cam so that it can get an open bite on the angle on the cocking piece. But none of us are going to be able to fix it talking about it and I don't work for out-of-country people anymore so I know I aint'ent fixing it.

I say, send it to a gun plumber and get it fixed. I bet that will work! LOL

Nobody, including "experts" knows how to fix something until they learn how to fix it, either through trial and error, or schooling from someone else who also didn't know how to fix it until he/she learned how to fix it - and so forth.



No burs on this piece and it appears that there are no bus on the camming surface on the safety.

I think that what happened here is that the sear was ground too short so that the camming surface on the safety can't get a decent bite on the camming angle on the firing pin.

I was kind of confused because the previous photos must be from some other kind of Model 70 safety as those parts do not look at all like mine.

I hate to suggest putting the expert gun plumbers out of business but when I have any issue with a modern rifle I first contact the manufacturer. If it can't be resolved through them, then I involve a freelance expert.
Many times the manufacturer wants to correct any issues and they do it for free.

This is an early New Haven, Connecticut made rifle. That company is no longer in business.

Well if you take the bolt lock out and it still doesn't work, then you have to put it in the mill and refit the safety cam. If it starts working after you take the bolt lock out, then it's the bolt lock. Weld it up relocate and redrill it.

I appreciate the suggestion and understand why and when the bolt lock would be a concern, but I don't see how the bolt lock would have an effect here because the bolt lock doesn't come into play until advancing to the bolt lock stage. When advancing to the first "on safe" position is when the safety cam starts to contact the firing pin cam angle. at that point the bolt lock has not done anything yet. Not until advancing to the 2nd stage, by which time the safety should be engaged. It works fine from first stage to second stage once it gets into first stage.

This gun might be a part out candidate.

Put the firing pin array in the mill as illustrated and remove .001 at a crack until it starts to engage. If you go to far the sears will disengage when you pull the trigger while on safe and then fire when you take the safety off. Like Tom says, it's a balancing act.

I have owned and worked on a lot of Win 70 safeties. That notch you have depicted looks like it needs some work. Mill it if you have access and skill, stone it a bit if you dare (be prepared to ruin it and need another firing pin, or farm it out to a skilled gunsmith.

It may be the angle of the shot, but I have never seen a factory job that looked like your pic. It looks like someone cut it back square and then added a chamfer on the outer edge. That chamfer needs increased. I use a small flat stone and keep the angle consistent.

Its the angle of the photo. It is definitely not square.

From the evidence it appears that the sear was cut too short, leaving the safety notch too long, and I agree that milling it or stoning it is the proper thing to do.

But I can see that to do it right one has to do it very slowly so as to not go too far, which means cutting and trying a lot. And that means operating that damn spring on and off a lot, which is a pain in the fingers. so I am in the process of making a tool out of a washer to more easily compress the spring. Basically trying to copy Rod's spring compressor. Would have purchased one if he made them for sale!

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
Basically trying to copy Rod's spring compressor. Would have purchased one if he made them for sale!

I don't make them for the same reason Brownells doesn't make and sell them. It's one of those tools that you could never sell because you would have to make 1000 of them, sit on them for 20 years and sell them for $20.00 to cover materials, manufacture, inventorying, marketing and insurance. But in the end they are just to simple and guys will spend a couple of hours and make one before spending $20 and waiting two weeks to get it. To make one-offs it's an hour or two shot to hell to make and ship. At $100 per hour man & machine? Plus, the insurance company would want $500 per year for PL&PD on it, so it's just a lost issue.

I've looked at parts and tool manufacture before. Unless you have a ready market for thousands of them and it's a captive market, it's a pretty tough slug. That's why when someone brings up obsolete parts manufacture in these forums, Duane Wiebe starts giggling uncontrollably and tosses out his famous, infamous, designer sun-glass manufacturing gig. He's been there! He knows.

Just so you know. When cutting and fitting them. You generally have to disassemble, cut, reassemble and try, about one shitload of times. Generally that's more than four and just shy of whenever it it works right. Or somewhere in between. LOL

I can definitely see that sneaking up on it is definitely the way to go. Hence the need to get the spring compressor tool made first. My fingers are sore already from putting that damn spring on only 3 times.