I just got a barrel vise from Numrich few days ago, bolted it to my reloading bench, and started using it.

The vise uses solid wood blocks(beech?) for clamping : about 3.3X3.3", 1" thick and cut into halves with holes drilled for Mauser 98 barrel shank. So I took out a Mauser 98 made in 1933 with fair-good bore, and started my first attemp at removing barrels. The gun doesn't seem to have been abused, no rust, workmanship is excellent.

My problem is that I have really tightened the bolt on the vise, but the wood blocks would not hold the barrel with sufficient grip. My action wrench has substantial amount of metal on the handle so I drilled a 0.5" hole for a cheater bar, the action wrench and torque department is taken care of.

Now the question is : Is the wood block system good enough for this job at all? Should I replace them with metal blocks? Or is the wood block system fine I just need to tighten the screws even more? If I am to use rosin powder which I do have, how much difference does it make? How much rosin to use?

Help is appreciated.

I use a similar barrel vise. When clamping the barrel I use a piece of cloth backed sanding paper (from a belt sander) with the sanding surface toward the blocks and the fibre side to the barrel. This works fine.
The problem is that the wood fibre when crushed in the vise tends to smooth out against the steel and lose grip.

Pyrotec.
I am wondering if your wood blocks are even wide enough. If I understand your dimensions the clamping surface is 1" wide. The clamping surface on the Brownells Steel bushings is 3" wide and then rosin is used. I use just a finger wipe of rosin on each half of the bushing and then tighten evenly. Mausers are not usually too bad. I have had Enfields that required a big pipe on the action wrench handle to break loose. When you get one like this your barrel vise obviously must not slip and you want to be careful not to twist the action. When all else fails you put the barreled action in the lathe and with a parting tool you make a cut very close to the receiver to relieve some of the pressure on the thread. Hope this helps. Good luck

I second the use of rosin, even use it on metal inserts. A couple wraps of regular copy paper, dusted w/rosin, usually takes care of those times when the fit is a mite too loose. BTW, I also use it on scope rings on the kickers, too.>>>>>>>Bug.

Some Mauser barrels are an absolute (w)itch to remove.

Three weeks ago I removed one for an American Rifleman writer. It was harder than the hinges of Hell to get off. I used both resin and emery cloth in the vice to get a good grip, as the barrel was to be scrapped anyway.

At first I hoped it would be easy, so I used an internal action wrench. No go. Can't put too much torque to those internal wrenches for fear of splitting the action.

So then to external-type wrench and 5-lb. lead hammer. Still no go. The two of us weigh about 525-550 lbs put together, so we both yanked on the action wrench. Nada.

Next, into the lathe and cut relief groove right up to within a few thousandths of the receiver. Back into the barrel vice and external wrench setup. Still wouldn't budge.

Finally got the 4' long, thick-walled pipe I use for moving safes, and used it as an extension of the action wrench handle. Knew that might very easily ruin the action, but the owner was standing there with a couple of other spare actions, and he wanted to see what it would take to loosen that sucker.

Normally I would have soaked it in penetrating oil for a couple of days but he had to catch a plane to a stock-maker's, so we put the force to it. Had my entire 6'-3" 228 lbs body hanging from that action wrench and one leg pushing against the bench when, finally, with a very audible "snap" the barrel came loose.

Did some measurements and as near as we could guess, some 900-lb gorilla had put that barrel on with about .006"-.009" crush on both the front of the receiver ring AND the internal collar. There was no rust present, and the barrel turned easily by hand once snapped loose. No damage to action we could find other than the galled faces of both receiver and internal collar.

With 228 lbs hanging from the end of a 4' bar, isn't that about 912 ft.-lbs. required to snap it loose? And that was AFTER the relief groove was cut!

Seems a little tight to me.....

AC

Canuck
Your math is exactly correct. A 912 pound Gorrila at the end of the 12" handle on the wrench is 912 ft-lbs. And you never know maybe he had help. I don't think I ever had a Mauser that bad and I am not envious. Glad you got it removed.

So how much torque would you usually find on a barrel for a .30 caliber rifle? Curious about new things, especially those pertaining to guns, as always.

I favor a series of sharp raps over steady pressure. You can vibrate a tight barrel off easier than you can brute force it. Slide a couple of feet of pipe over action wrench handle, apply pressure with one padded hand and bang on the pipe with a hammer.

Instead of rosin, try plain old powdered sugar. It grips like crazy, doesn't scrath or mar any surface, and rinses off under hot tap water...

Malm

I have used powdered sugar to good effect several times. If the barrel is toast anyway, try a pipewrench with the action wrench. That never fails.

Todd

I try the rosin, Alluminum collet in barrel vice, long cheater bar, penetrating oil, and hit the pre stressed cheater bar with a sledge hammer.

If that doesn't work, the relief cut trick does.

This is dumb, but I would rather ruin the barrel function with a cut than ruin it's looks with a pipe wrench.

[ 06-17-2003, 08:55: Message edited by: Clark ]

I haven't been able to take time out to try some of the methods here, but as soon as I do I'll tell you what happened.

For sho-nuff scrap barrels the sure-fire, one-shot, nearly guaranteed, method for any of them is to attach the action wrench and lay it's handle on the floor and stand on it with one foot. Fit a big pipe wrench to the barrel with the handle suspended about six inches off the floor on the other side of the action from the wrench handle. Now stomp the pipe wrench handle. It's amazing how they come apart with shock and not steady force.

It does no good to cut a relief in a military Mauser barrel. They only torque on the inner ring. Springfields and Enfields use the face of the action as the contact face and a relief cut will allow them to be unscrewed by hand.

Jack did a much better job of describing the pipewrench stomp technique than I did. Some of those barrels are on soooo tight, it takes of bunch of stomps even with my 230 #. No way you'd ever get one like that off with a pure friction grip. I use a 'one-handed palm whack' to tighten new barrels down, and no more.

Todd

I forgot to mention that the compliance of the cheater bar may be a problem. Hitting the cheater bar a long way from the barrel may not transmit much shock to rusted parts.

So when one guy sits on the cheater bar 6' from the barrel [~1000 foot pounds of torque], the other guy hits the bar of the action wrench or barrel vice [which ever is to move] with the sledge hammer 4 to 6 inches from the barrel.

The problem is the flex in the cheater bar can absorb the shock of hammer.

I got a work bench from Boeing Surplus with a top made of 5/8" steel plate. To this I have an barrel vice I made from lengths of 2x2" steel. I make Alluminum collets from 1.5" round stock for every barrel shank diameter. The acion wrench I made from lengths of 2x2" steel, and I put a pipe over it for a cheater bar. The sledge hammer hits the action wrench directly and not the pipe over the action wrench.

Likewise the mass of the action wrench can be a problem if it is more than the mass of the sledge hammer. Too light a hammer just peens the surface and doesn't move the object. I do not have a 10 pound sledge hammer, so I have to use a 2' length of 2" steel on end as a hammer.

The beech blocks are just fine if you can keep the barrel from turning. I have used blocks of oak, maple, popple(aspen), plastic and aluminum.

I gave up on the rosin several years ago and now use wide double stick tape. You can find it used for holding carpet down. It compresses well and is easy to remove. It seems to hold for me.

I have had more luck rapping with a dead blow hammer than using a cheater bar. It has been a long time since I have had to cut off and bore out a stub.

Good luck

Roger

I have done the rosin method, it didn't work out, but I can feel the grip has improved.

I am starting to think the wood blocks aren't going to cut it in my vise---My vise clamps straight down, after many attemps the wood blocks seem a little crushed and the hole seem elongated. I've tried to shim the two sides of each blocks so when it clamps down, the blocks bends a little to put pressure on more areas of the barrel. The result feels a little better but still slipped. I've even tried this setup on another Mauser---no luck. I might have to make metal blocks adapted for different sleeves.

The Mauser I am trying to remove barrel from is a practice. What I must remove barrel from is a Lee-Enfield no4mk1, I'd better learn all the how-to's and get stuff ready before the .44mag barrel arrives.

What does the pipewrench you guys described look like and why, from how you implied, does it seem to afford better griping power to make it into the ultimate resort?

I've visited a hardware store after encountering my barrel removal problem and honestly I've caught sight of a pipewrench. At first I thought this might help me with the removal but it didn't seem a very relaible tool? Are we on the same page about pipewrenches here?

pyro..If you must save the barrel try epoxy between the bushing and barrel don't tighten untill the epoxy is set to full strenth. You can remove the epoxy from the barrel by rapping with a brass hammer. hope you get it off. If you're junking the barrel weld it to the welding table. works every time.

pyro..about the pipe wrench, it has serrated teeth and a floating lower jaw, The harder you turn the wrench the harder it grips. If you use the pipe wrench make sure the teeth are not worn blunt.

Small hint re: use of a pipewrench on a Mauser barrel you want to save; remove band for the rear site, and lock the pipe wrench on that area. Then peen the raised metal back down, file smooth, and re-install your rear sight. This avoids ugly pipewrench marks on the breech end of the barrel.

I use the Brownells four screw barrel vice & turn my own barrel bushings from 1 3/4" OD aluminum stock. Maximum surface contact between the bushing & barrel is the secret. The four screw holding power is far superior to a two screw barrel vice.

I use an impact action wrench for flat bottom receivers, and a 3 pound hammer. The wrench has a "consumable" impact button (head of a grade 3 bolt).