I'm in the process of putting a new .17 cal barrel on a 30 year old Remington 700 SA. It was a 17 Rem originally and I should have figured Murphy was humping me from the getgo.

The original barrel was screwed on so tight I eventually had to turn a groove in it to get it off. I have several lathe projects going so I didn't get around to the receiver until today.

I mounted it on a real snug mandrel that has negligible runout, set in a 4 jaw and on a tailstock center to check everything out. I had it turning at 70 rpm. When I looked at the threads I couldn't believe my eyes. You could see the edges of the threaded hole jumping up and down like a horny rabbit. When I got the indicator on it, the FU***** POS had 0.027" of runout on the top of the threads!!!!!!Geez. I still can't believe it. I mean the top rim is thin and the bottom rim is thick, visually. It even looks like the outside was ground off center. I just turned off everything and came in for 4 fingers of J.D. I'm done for tonight. Tomorrow I'll do some measuring and see if I can do anything with it.

I have an XP I am swapping barrels also, and it's giving me a hard time. It's sitting making a JB weld mold block for the barrel vise so I can save the original skin-nyass barrel. Looks like the XP action will become a switch barrel or my Sav110 will be wearing a 17 Rem barrel.

Anyone got any suggestions for the 700 action other than fish line weight? It looks like enough meat left to cut out the threads on the high side, true up the hole, recut the threads, then cut another barrel oversized and make an axe handle of it.

Makatak--

Are you sure you're not seeing the beginning of the receiver thread?

Do this. Chuck up a piece of barstock and thread it 1.050-16 to a snug fit on your receiver...it only has to go three threads or so.....thread the receiver on the stub while it's still in the lathe and then stick the mandrel in the back of the action and see how it wobbles. That'll tell the tale in a hurry.

In fact, I'd rotate it by hand before turning it on. I might scare you!! It's a mystery how they can make them so wrong, sometimes.

Makatak,

Remington 700 POC (piece of cake)...

Sounds too me like you discovered one of the reasons why Remingtons are preferred in the target game. The round action is easily trued to include the threads. Once these actions are running true, they are hard to beat!

True the bolt tunnel, Apply layout blue to the threads, make a cut across the tops of the existing threads to form a new point of reference. This will be your new minor dimension. Thread depth should be about .044 from this reference point and should clean up pretty well. Set the lathe for 16 TPI, pick up the existing thread and make chips. You will most likely need to rebore the barrel lug for the slightly oversized shank but what the hey...

At this juncture you will want to continue truing everything so think of it like this, when you are done, you will have a true action with which to work. How cool is that!


Have fun,

Malm

While on the mandrel and with the mandrel dialed in, take a clean up cut on the alum. sacrificial sleeve that you should have attached to the o.d. of the front receiver ring. The assembly can now be dialed in in your 4-jaw and trued up. You can clean up and square the front of the receiver, the lug abutments and single point re-cut the threads. Use a mirror to see the back side of the thread as you work. I have a number of threaded plugs in sizes going to about 1.090-16 but always work from the pitch dia., not the o.d. of the threads.
Use pin gages to determine the i.d. of the receiver at different places and use that as a guide for the sleeving of the bolt body. Do the sleeving after you have done the other operations to the bolt head, etc.
Going to this much effort is probably not worthwhile for a little varmie gun but definately worth it for 1000 yard rifles and extreme range varmie and big game rifles. Paying a 'smith for it is not good economics but this is great fun for hobbyists. BAT and Nesika actions are really better deals for non-machine shop folks. Opinions by Jay

Lotsa things about Remingtons that a fella learns through years of tinkering with them.

One, be sure everything is indicated to the centerline of the bore axis, like mentioned above. The OD of the action ain't true to the bore centerline, and the thread recess cut is generally not true to the threads, and the threads are generally not true to the bore centerline. Be careful indicating to a mandrel, you need both ends dialed in, or a long enough mandrel such that you can use two indicators. Otherwise, you will have the receiver cocked in the chuck and cut a truing thread that is at an angle to the bore, same for facing the front of the receiver ring.

Two, if you cannot unscrew the barrel, you do not have the correct equipment. There are barrel vises and there are barrel vises, most commercial ones are junk. I have a super duty one I made in 1972 that don't slip, even with those frozen Enfields and rusted up junk Mausers (not all mausers are junk, just some of them) And you need a dedicated, custom made action wrench that grips the receiver like a barrel vise, complete with a index screw to fit in the front action screw hole, and a lug that fits into the magazine opening.

Newer M700 actions have some type of goop on the threads that mainly acts to take up the space in the loose thread fit, but this junk also acts like a mild form of LocTite. It ain't that tough and a proper barrel vise and action wrench will allow the barrel to be unscrewed. Some folks say to heat the receiver, but this is risky for the novice, as you can get into annealing temperature real fast.

Like Jay said, all the work involved is a good lathe project, but if you have to pay a good rifle builder to do it, you are better off buying a custom action.

I feel like a ho' on payday night, Murphy has had me so many times this week. Part of the runout was a loose tip on one indicator, but after spending half the day measuring everything in sight it still comes up 0.013" out of whack. I measured the minor diameter of the receiver threads as far in as I could get and stuck a long probe indicator in to the unthreaded portion just in front of the mag well cutout. That showed 0.020" but it was so rough that amount is questionable.

I was a field mechanic for a lot of years and "make doo" was the word of the day on most of the hard dollar jobs I worked. Dirt foremen didn't care about anything except moving dirt and if you couldn't keep that yellow iron movin', you were moving...down the road, so if I can't get a store bought tool, I'd make my own. I'm way ahead of the game or way behind the pitcher when it comes to tools for lathe work. Long on book learnin' and short on experience. I have a list I keep adding to and Brownells just loves me for the stuff I can't make or make doo.

I got the XP barrel off but it was a tough go and theRemGoo was packed in real good. The barrel was only screwed on 4 and a half threads. I guess they didn't think a 7mm BR needed anymore as they also turned down the shank to 0.900" for 0.400" then started the threads. I'm learning a lesson a New York second. I turned off the blank section, turned down the same amount forward of the threads, picked up a thread and continued the threads out to the shoulder. The barrel was bent by 0.025", but the XP action is only out by about 0.006". I will cut it down and use it for an indicator and stuff a spring and plunger in it for lapping lugs.

Thanks for the offer to buy this great Remington action but I would have to get more than the price of a new rifle to offset my losses. Think I will keep it and make it into a thousand yarder. Maybe put a nice fat aluminum sleeve on it just for kicks.

Thanks for all the information, I will use most of it somewhere along the line in the near future. Anyone know who it is that sells the sacrificial alum rings for the receiver? I came cross a site that offered 3 for ten bucks, I think, but I can't find it now. I can't find any aluminum tubing around here close to that size. Lots of 4' to 8" irrigation pipe but nothing even near 1/4" wall x 1.5 od. Dam' I hear the brown truck again.

Beans and bacon twice a day again for the next month.

With enough time and money they can do anything.

Malm, Where do I start...to true the bolt tunnel??? All I can think of is making a bi-gass cathead and suspending the receiver in the the middle, put that in a 4 jaw, dial it in, then use a reamer in either the tool holder or the tail stock to clean up the tunnel. But that would make the bolt sloppy. I don't want to get into bolt sleeving just yet.

Any other alternatives?

JBelk. I hear you on the mandrel sticking out the backside. That's almost like asking someone to beat your ways all to hell.

John Ricks. I like the sound of your action wrench. I milled and turned a piece of 1/2" x 1" CR to fit the length of the bolt ways and a 16" cresent with a 2' snipe on the end and a turned piece of 4" alum epoxied to the barrel and locked in a barrel vise. I saw that used in an article on .223's the author was using to switch barrels. Even then I was looking for any torqing of the action as I applied the force. Now, I have twisted the heads off of 1/2" grade 8 bolts so I'm not what you would call puny. Even at that I had to really start to bear down before the barrel released. I have Brownells two piece head, which sounds similar to yours without the action lug, on my list, I will make the handle piece. Do you have some pictures of your wrench so I can just plain copy it or is my asking a faux pas? I've been copying things so long I just now realized in some areas asking might be considered bad taste. Thanks

Jay: You're right about the BAT and Nesika actions. I have several rifles in mind...when I hit the lotto. Right now, all I'm doing is my lifes dreams, not real bad...but not real good yet, either. Getting down below, consistently, the .4 mark without spending 4 large per rifle is the tough part and doing it myself is the other part. My satisfaction comes not from the end (the target) but from all the other pieces and parts of the trip getting to the end. Accolades are of no value to me, I quit collecting trophies a long time ago, not to cast dispersions on any one elses pleasures. It is enough for me to know.

Thanks all for your help and input.

Makatak,

Make a 3 or 4 inch long steel sleeve that fits "tightly" around the outside of the action. You will press or tap this sleeve in place over the action from the front. You will need to pre drill a hole in the sleeve that will line up with the forward guard screw hole in the receiver for which to attach a safety screw. Make the screw deep enough so as not to interfere with the truing of the sleeve and short enough so that it doesn't interfere with the reciever threading operation either.

Next take an old piece of gun barrel say 10" or so, and turn it between centers to the point where it will "BARELY" fit in the bolt tunnel. This mandrel needs to be a "snug" fit. Install it so that it protrudes from both ends. I use a 6X48 screw through one of the rear scope base screw holes to help keep the mandrel from accidentally slipping while truing the sleeve.

Mount the whole unit between centers and true the receiver sleeve. Remove the bolt tunnel mandrel and place the receiver with sleeve in the 4 jaw and dial it in using the sleeve from which to indicate on. At this point the bolt tunnel or firing pin axis should be running true. ALL receiver truing operations can now be completed using this one set up.

Good luck,

Malm

Thanks Malm. I was going on the assumption that using the outside of the receiver for anything was a no-no. I already have a very snug fitting 12" mandrel turned and polished on centers and my next step was to turn the receiver ring just enough to true it up over most of its length, as long as I didn't turn off the serial number. Then use the steady and the 4 jaw to hold it while I attempt to clean up the threads and the tunnel but your way might be better. On both the Rem actions the mandrel will go in from both ends up to a point near the middle of the mag well then tightens up. Looks like the tunnel has a slight hump in it.

Hey, if you could see my big grin when what you all have suggested works out. Means I did something right. Just like some of the young welders and mechanics I taught when they completed a difficult job and it turned out right. I could see the satisfaction and pride in their eyes. Made me feel all the BS was worth it and Mr. Hyde went away for a while. Now, If I could just find Mr. Murphy and waste........

Thanks again

Makatak,

Truing the outside of the receiver to the bolt tunnel would be the perfect way to proceed "IF" very little material was removed. You are going to reduce the wall thickness of the receiver a bit when you recut the receivers threads. Unless absolutely necessary, I don't know if I would want to reduce this dimension unless I was certain that I could bring it to "zero" within a few thousandths. I like a little metal between the major thread and the air so to speak...

On a precision 1000yd comp gun, that hump in the bolt tunnel might pose a problem in which case you would simply recut the tunnel and sleeve the bolt. This would represent the extreme end of perfection but is needed if the goal is winning.

If that hump is going to create a problem, then you will have to address it. Maybe the careful use of a mandrel and emory cloth might reduce this obstacle enough to cleanly pass your bolt tunnel tooling.

The amount of care that you are willing to invest in the project to insure as perfect a result as possible will be visible to all in the impact zone.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out...

Malm

The best thing I have found to do with a Rem action is to put it in a box, address it to Gre-Tan rifles, and give it to the UPS guy. A week later he will bring it back and it will be right. For $150 it is not worth me spending half a day setting it up. And he does a great job, he will even open up the lug, and give you the new dimensions for the barrel thread.

John

Thanks again Malm. Metal removal is always a questionable act that has to be thought out and lots of questions asked. The "thin" end of the circle is, of course, on the top side of the receiver bridge so I'm reluctant to even shave a little off. I will polish out the hump as it amounts to about 0.001" just so the mandrel goes through without chewing it up each time. What comes off the inside threads is, theoretically, put back on the barrel tenon, in a perfect world so to speak. I'm chasing material for sleeves all over the web. I found some alum and steel tubing at Online Metals that will work for truing sleeves and it's on the way if the snow melts enough for the L.B.T. to get up my road. Thanks again Malm. I lived in Sandy and Kearns and spent quite a bit of time up at Mirror and Blue lakes nailing rockchucks on the talus slopes. I miss the potguts.

GasGunner: You're right about Gre'Tan and if it was only a question of having it done and go shooting I would have sent at least 8 Rems off to Greg a long time ago. And, for the amount of money I've invested in tools and equipment, before even unscrewing a barrel, I could have had someone that knows what the hell is going on build me several rifles. A finished rifle has never been the question, I have a bunch in my rack that shoot small critters a long way off and big critters even longer. I did the wood work and someone else did the metal work. I want to learn how to do the metal work, it's just that simple. Gre'Tan is supplying some of the tools, I'm stealing, uh, borrowing, a couple of his ideas like part of his flushing system, and if or when I get snookered, I get to pay extra for Greg to give me a lesson or one of the other knowledgeble gunsmiths that frequent this site, but thanks for the suggestion.

Before you polish the receiver bore try to run some short pins through, maybe a .702 or .703 or whatever you think is about the dia. of the bore. My guess is that the receiver is a bit bent, think banana. The big hole at the top/right is the worst thing that the factory does to the 700. I'll bet that it is bent away from that hole. Some of the negatives on 700s:
1. threaded end for barrel about 1/2" short.
2. big holes in center of receiver.
3. bolt stop should be like BAT, Nesika, etc.
4. no trigger hanger.
5. rear bridge is lowered and dif. radius.
Numbers 3 and 4 can be remedied but the others are still problems.
Opinions by Jay

Makatak,

Last time I was at Mirror Lake I spent an hour beneath it mapping it. Potguts every where... top side of course.

Malm

Depending on the time of year,Malm, that was a frosty experience wasn't it? I usually camped at Blue lake on the road side and shot 'chucks on the talus slope across the lake. It actually is more of a pond. That was mid 80's so things probably have changed quite a bit. The road (goat path) up to Blue lake was 4wd, low range hangontoyourassandthekids tough and only when it dried out. The 'skeeters loved me and anything I slathered on and I never caught any proported fish either. Never saw anyone around all the years I camped there only deer, elk, bear, lion, lots of potguts and birds. I wore out several hot 22 and 6mm barrels up there, sitting in one place. I finally got around to moving to a place almost as beautiful and not near the skeeters.

Jay: I think a banana is the story on both actions. The 700 is worse than the XP. Must have something to do with the process or maybe torqing the barrel on so tight sucks that piece of steel below the ejection port and the mag well out of whack. I'll check it out close tomorrow. I still can't believe how bad stuff gets through what passes for QC at Remington. Even with the bent and twisted barrel and 8" of rough barrel in front of the chamber the original 17 Rem barrel would put 5 into 5/8" at 160 yd and continued to shoot well as long as I cleaned it with BBS after every 10 shots and let it cool down. If I didn't, all bets were off after about a dozen shots.

I think I will turn and rethread this 17 cal Shilen and put it on a Sav110 action and fall back and regroup until I get the Rem actions sorted out. At least I can do a few critters in the mean time.