Over the past two weeks, I've talked to several gunsmiths that were rather scathing in thier remarks on the fit and finish of this action. What's the scoop?

waksupi---

It could be they haven't seen one.

Do a search on this site and you'll see the straight scoop from those that buy, use, design and build the Montana action.

There's a LOT of information and some pictures of the actions, tooling, and design drawings.

You're welcome.

Did you ask them how many they have handled and what their experience is with the actions from MRC?

I'd like to see the answer to that question if you would post it.

From what I have read here and on other forums what you heard is anout oppsite from the normal reaction.

How reputable are these gunsmiths? Are they jealous or have some other agenda?

Did you ask them how many they have handled and what their experience is with the actions from MRC?

I'd like to see the answer to that question if you would post it.

From what I have read here and on other forums what you heard is about opposite from the normal reaction.

How reputable are these gunsmiths? Are they jealous or have some other agenda?

(edited for spelling)

[ 04-12-2003, 19:21: Message edited by: Elkslayer ]

I read that Ray Atkinson got one a few days ago.

My gunsmith handled them at the Shot Show and said "they are a little rough on the outside and super smooth on the inside". It's too bad that I spoke up and said "I am going to have mine bead blasted anyway" as I really don't know what he meant about the outside. I am going to call him late next week about barrels anyway and I want to find out.

I assumed he was taking about the as cast finish.

Before he went to the show I had printed out a copy of Belk's critique and left it with him.

waksupi,

Sounds rather at odds with what alot of folks are saying about the Montana actions. What did these several smiths have to say exactly?

I would be as interested to hear honest (reasonable) criticism of the action as I am honest praise.

Regards,
Dave

[ 04-12-2003, 20:12: Message edited by: DavidC ]

I am also interested in reading the names and comments of the gunsmiths. I have ordered two M99 actions, and the first has arrived (a RH .532 bolt face chrome moly action with .375 H&H mag box). Here is a photo of my action, which is a production action and not an action selected for review.



I thought the finish was quite good, at least up to what I expected. I have also handled two other actions. The one Jack Belk surface ground was really pretty.

jim dodd

I asked my smith if he'd seen one yet, he said someone had brought one in to him, he didn't like it, said something like the Oly Arms BBK is way nicer for a "nice" custom rifle, and you get what you pay for. He said it resembled somethin like a Ruger in quality... no better. If you want to build something on an action like that, go ahead, it's your gun not mine is something to the effect he said. He said more too, but I'll stop there.

You all want his number to find out more, you can call him yourself at 907-376-5261 ask for Dave Caboth.

It might be worth a call Rod, just to hear for yourself what he has to say. Dave's a custom gun builder and only appreciates fine rifles, not crap or half-ass quality... so I considered the source. If you're really interested you'll call him in person. I'm only telling what I heard on the contrary to the reviews posted here, I still have not seen one yet myself, so I couldn't tell you what my opinion of them is if I wanted too... this one here's not mine, just someone I do know and have come to have a great deal of respect for, so now I wonder myself. My beautifull Ruger Magnum 416 which I happen to love, he likes it and it's OK, but that's not his idea of a sweet custom rifle by no means... just to give you an idea.

Ok now, before you all jump my shit, let me say, I was pretty shocked too, take it for what it's worth. I think I'll still get one anyway, my stuff don't have to be seen as top notch, just more of a practical freakin tool! I'll let you all studied in fine art be the judge of it's beauty or limitations in that reguard!

Rod,

If you ever speak to Dave, I'd be interested to know the specific things you disagree with him on concerning the actions. Take care.

This experience may fit this discussion. I had a custom 1911A1 pistol built last year and there were two types of slides and frame sets that I could have chosen for the project, cast and barstock. Assuming the quality control was similiar and critical dimensions were correct, strength and durability were not an issue. The final issue was cosmetics. My pistolsmith did not mind cast frames and receiver for tactical/carry conversions only. For his "best grade" guns he preferred the "classic" old 70-series or pre-70 Colts. These could become heirlooms. The way they were rollmarked, the shape of the frame and slide cuts, etc. were "classic". Putting a lot of money and effort into the Colt would only add value. Another consideration was that cast frames took more effort to polish for final finish than a barstock would.

I opted for the cast because, the type of gun I wanted was for a tactical/carry style and the finish was teflon, so I did not need a highly polished finish nor did I spend more money for the more expensive barstock.

I ordered a Montana action, because of features and low cost. I plan on making a very nice gun with a teflon finish and synthetic stock. If I were building a "best-grade" custom rifle, I would probably start with a nice pre-64 M70 action, rust blue finish and stock with nice wood.

In the future, Williams will have a barstock action with features similiar to the Montana cast action. Then I think the debate will turn to barstock versus cast.

I think thats the difference. Maybe these are some reasons for the comments of these gunsmiths.

Cheers,
Damon

Gentlemen:
I have a Montana action (.375 length) that I sent to Sterling Davenport for a custom .416 Hoffman
He has it barreled now, and is faverable impressed with this new action. This is my first experience with this action and I will let you know how it all turns out.
George

It sounds to me like the Model 1999 is good enough to replace the Model 70 for a custom rifle from now on . Rod, you guys better make the PH available soon so I can buy a couple of them. Thanks.

Mingo said---

quote:

---

It sounds to me like the Model 1999 is good enough to replace the Model 70 for a custom rifle from now on

---

It certainly is!!

A "gunmaker" that prefers a BKK over the Montana is looking at the shape of the outside of the action and basing his opinion on LOOKS (M-98 vs M-70) and not quality. I've never seen a BKK that was salvageable.

I was planning a custom rifle in 6mm or 243 based on a Rem 700 or Win Mod 70. The Montana came along and based on reviews (especially by Mr. Belk) I decided that a 6mm Rem on a Montana short is what I wanted.

Now a certain amount of criticizm has arisen, albeit not very specific. I want a safe, durable action (enough to outlive me), capable of 1/2 minute accuracy when built by a competent smith and quality barrel. This has been accomplished with the Remingtons and Winchesters many times over. Are these realistic expectations of the Montana?

Ian

Ian---

Based on 37 years experience with M-70 and M-700s and a VERY limited sample of M-99s, I'd bet on the Montana taking LESS work to attain what you're looking for.

I'm planning a 257 Roberts on the same action.

Ian,

Read my comments on the thread "Does anyone have an opinion on this?" that's here in gunsmithing.

I too have a couple of M 1999's on order and like you one will be a 6mm Rem. I feel comfortable with what I have read here and heard from my gunsmith about the actual function and look of the M 1999. I don't expect to get something for nothing but I want a rifle that's made right. I feel that the Montana is the best out there for a working rifle that is used for hunting.

I also am an end user with no commercial interest who has shot with the best of them. I have a tool and die background and I have purchased investment castings in large and moderate volumes for successfull products. I have toured the Ruger plants and many, many other investment casting foundries as well and have also delt with Thompson Center who is another good vendor.

If it's made right it will be an outstanding product. So far my expectations are very high.

If George Hoffman and Sterling Davenport are favorably impressed with this action so far, than it may be worth keeping an open mind.

I just finished looking at a whole bunch of these actions, completed, nearly completed, just proof tested, stainless and CM polished and unpolished. I was even shown some that were flawed and had been culled out. I also looked at some raw castings.
These actions are well thought out and well made. They are reasonably priced and deliver quality that is better than the price would indicate.
There is room for the gunsmith to "customize" the action to a certain extent. For instance, in the shaping of the tang, trigger guard, etc.
I personally ordered mine unpolished just because I like to (masochist!).
The actions will not be real popular with the Remington 700 crowd because they aren't a tube!
I like the one piece bolt, I like the inner collar, I like the bolt stop and I like the bolt sleeve. Is there room for more polishing? yes there is. Does the fit and finish suck? It certainly does not!
I, for one, am real happy to see a decent American made action made available to us at a reasonable cost. This has been quite an undertaking for these guys and they are to be applauded for making this effort IMHO. Regards, Bill.

I am eagerly awaiting the Large action for 505 Gibbs. I am told that the bolt size will be even bigger than the big Granite Mountain Arms bolt-.800, A real hammer of a gun can be made from it with all of the great features of the actions I love the most. It looks like I will be buying less of the pre=64 model 70 actions for my custom projects. I, too handeled the customized Montana '99 action that Jack Belk worked on and it was well done. The only question is whether or not a gunsmith can make the various cartridges that may be thrown at thei action feed well enough to do the action justice.

The comments I heard related to the finish of the actions.

Is it possible your smith has mistaken the Charles Daly Mark X, or the Legacy (sp?) 98 clone for the Montana? There have been a few CRF actions come on the market recently, he may have them mixed.
I have heard nothing but good so far on these, from both the inter net and a smith I know that saw one in Nevada. I hope they as good as I`ve been told, I have a short one comeing.

Can't wait for the PH model myself! I have yet to even pick up one of these actions but there are plenty of real pros buying these actions and it ain't becasue they suck! Rod, keep me in mind for the .505 Gibbs barreled action we talked about.

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

Mr. LEEPER

I know that you have a couple Shorts on order. How are things going with importing them to Canada? I've been waiting for MRC to announce a Canadian distributor. Wondering if we can still get them if that falls through?

Ian

I forsee no difficulty as far as the importation of these is concerned. MRC has their export permit in process and I'm quite sure that by the time the short actions are ready we will be all set. If the firearms registry would just die a peaceful death things would be even easier! Regards, Bill.

Perhaps the US could liberate Canada. I'm ready for a Regime change!

I just spoke with my gunsmith who saw the actions at the shot show and then I called Montana and they assured me that what he looked at may have been just the castings as all actions will be polished above the stock line and will not require more work there.

I have a Montana magnum action (375 lenth) in my shop and its pretty darn nice...I will need to polish the rails but it is smooth enough as is for most and it works slick, but I believe the rails need polishing...It won't take much to get it right...It will be a 404 Jefferys...

I think it is one of the best actions I have seen....I'd like for someone to tell me what is wrong with it...Any action in the white will need to be polished out IMO....and I will add a drop box from Ted Blackburn I suspect.